Juan Carlos I, Buque de Proyección Estratégica

[swerve]

She's been named! At least, if the spanish navy official site can be believed on this matter.

http://www.armada.mde.es/esp/ElFutur...p?SecAct=05201

So, whaddya think? Doesn't fit the amphibious ship series (I believe Aragon was mooted), but is in line with Principe de Asturias.

[European]

The LPD Juan Carlos I is a strong tool of projection.
It will give to Spain, together with the new lpd Galicia a strong anphibious capacity in line with the long tradition of spanish Infanteria de Marina and Tercio de Armada.

The sky-jump is not enough to say the BPE is an aircraft carrier.
PdA will continue to be the only aircraft carrier of Armada.

[tiddles]

Please is there some way to convert the Spanish to English, it is probably obvious but I am a bit slow with these things

[Ja Worsley]

NIce, so what's happening on this project, has it started to be built?

Tiddles: mate try this:Translator on this site, might help you.

[swerve]

Originally Posted by Ja Worsley

NIce, so what's happening on this project, has it started to be built?

It says so - "Artículo único. Se asigna el nombre de «Juan Carlos I» al Buque de Proyección Estratégica actualmente en construcción.

Madrid, 19 de octubre de 2006.—El Ministro de Defensa, José Antonio Alonso Suárez."

And here it says construction began 18 months ago -
http://www.revistanaval.com/noticias...-24-bpe-lhd-ll

Launch scheduled for December 2007.

[Gladius]

Yes, swerve.

You can see some modular blocks of the BPE at the Navantia's Shipyard of Ferrol. And the BPE is being constructed by two shipyards of Navantia (Fene and Ferrol), so some more blocks should be already finished in Fene.

The Official dates for the BPE Program were published by the Spanish Defence Ministry in the B.O.D. (Defence Official Bulletin) of 14 November 2006:

· Launch to Sea: 30-11-2007.
· Sea Trials: 15-9-2008.
· Official commission in the Navy: 1-12-2008.

[Scooter]

It would be interesting to see the design minus the floodable dock and add 4- LM2500 and 100' more of flight deck!




FLY NAVY

[European]

Originally Posted by Scooter

It would be interesting to see the design minus the floodable dock and add 4- LM2500 and 100' more of flight deck!




FLY NAVY

Sure,
also with a top electronic suite as radars Aegis and S 1850M and C4I capability.
More an indipendent capability to self protect with AAW, CIWS and AWS system as 32 vls for Aster 15, 2 cannons OtoMelara SuperRapido 'Strales' 76mm, 2 tube for MU90, 2 SLat.
Last but not least a stronger militray standard of building and not civilian.


Very interesting, but too much expensive. The price will rise at least two or three times where the target of BPE is to have a flexible ship at low costs.

BPE will be a great LPD. It's correct to compare Bpe vs Mistral.
It's not correct to compare Cavpour vs Bpe, they are like orange and apple. Totally different.

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by European

Sure,
also with a top electronic suite as radars Aegis and S 1850M and C4I capability.
More an indipendent capability to self protect with AAW, CIWS and AWS system as 32 vls for Aster 15, 2 cannons OtoMelara SuperRapido 'Strales' 76mm, 2 tube for MU90, 2 SLat.
Last but not least a stronger militray standard of building and not civilian.


Very interesting, but too much expensive. The price will rise at least two or three times where the target of BPE is to have a flexible ship at low costs.

BPE will be a great LPD. It's correct to compare Bpe vs Mistral.
It's not correct to compare Cavpour vs Bpe, they are like orange and apple. Totally different.

I would agree that comparing the Italian and Spainish Designs would be like comparing Apples and Oranges. That said, an Aircraft Carrier based BPE does have some merit........... nor does it have to be so complex with all of the systems that you listed? As escort could provide much of its local defense!

[European]

My list has been fulfilled only to justify the gap into the price of Bpe an Cavour.
Of course a true stovl aircraft carrier in the hull of Bpe will be very appreciate with or without complex electronic suite or weapons.

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by European

My list has been fulfilled only to justify the gap into the price of Bpe an Cavour.
Of course a true stovl aircraft carrier in the hull of Bpe will be very appreciate with or without complex electronic suite or weapons.

Regardless, both are excellent designs! Italy and Spain have much to be proud of.................

[stingray1003]

The BPE is a carrier designed to take and operate maybe 8 or so STOVL aircraft. It could carry a total of 30 (as a full carrier), but I would seriously doubt it would be able to operate that many effectively.

For spain (and australia) this is not an issue. Spain won't be flying high intensity ops from from the BPE. Harrier airframes are getting old and will most likely have to be babied a bit to ensure longevity until F-35B comes online. Besides it has another ship configured for just aircraft and the BPE will only operate fixed wing while it is off duty.

Australia would only look at one squad of F-35's. Spread across two ships that means <10 planes each. Think of it as a half size USN wasp ship.

Look at Thia's "aircraft carrier". Its a big stretch to call it that, it is a helicopter carrier. It can in theory launch fixed wing aircraft but its extremely limited in that role and has yet to prove it could operate them in any significant way.

However it is definately more flexable than having a Helicopter carrier without the capability to launch STOVL aircraft (Mistral).

There is no way a ship can be a command ship, Amphibious assult ship, a helicopter carrier, a hospital ship, a troop carrier, an aircraft carrier and do all these roles well all the time. Not even a Supercarrier is tasked with all those duties.

These ships would be prepped before leaving port. Australia is not going to have dedicated airwings for these ships (of either helicopters or F-35's). They will be hot swapped on much like the crew. Australia has no marines either so amphibious assult troops will be pulled from a variety of other regiments depending on the mission. Equipment and personel will be pulled from the airforce, army and navy.

The Cavour, CdG, etc all have dedicated crews and airwings.

After the BPE spain might start on a true replacement carrier more inline with the Cavour if the money can be found. Perhaps 25,000-30,000 tons. Or if the BPE is demeed acceptable another of her type.

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by stingray1003

The BPE is a carrier designed to take and operate maybe 8 or so STOVL aircraft. It could carry a total of 30 (as a full carrier), but I would seriously doubt it would be able to operate that many effectively.

For spain (and australia) this is not an issue. Spain won't be flying high intensity ops from from the BPE. Harrier airframes are getting old and will most likely have to be babied a bit to ensure longevity until F-35B comes online. Besides it has another ship configured for just aircraft and the BPE will only operate fixed wing while it is off duty.

Australia would only look at one squad of F-35's. Spread across two ships that means <10 planes each. Think of it as a half size USN wasp ship.

Look at Thia's "aircraft carrier". Its a big stretch to call it that, it is a helicopter carrier. It can in theory launch fixed wing aircraft but its extremely limited in that role and has yet to prove it could operate them in any significant way.

However it is definately more flexable than having a Helicopter carrier without the capability to launch STOVL aircraft (Mistral).

There is no way a ship can be a command ship, Amphibious assult ship, a helicopter carrier, a hospital ship, a troop carrier, an aircraft carrier and do all these roles well all the time. Not even a Supercarrier is tasked with all those duties.

These ships would be prepped before leaving port. Australia is not going to have dedicated airwings for these ships (of either helicopters or F-35's). They will be hot swapped on much like the crew. Australia has no marines either so amphibious assult troops will be pulled from a variety of other regiments depending on the mission. Equipment and personel will be pulled from the airforce, army and navy.

The Cavour, CdG, etc all have dedicated crews and airwings.

After the BPE spain might start on a true replacement carrier more inline with the Cavour if the money can be found. Perhaps 25,000-30,000 tons. Or if the BPE is demeed acceptable another of her type.

The BPE is a Amphibious LHD's and not a Aircraft Carrier in the true sense of the word. For example as she maybe capable of carrying a large number of Aircraft. Yet, that doesn't mean she could support such a large Airwing with the high sortie rates needed to project power ashore.............

[European]

Bpe is a LPD able to launch Av8b+ or F35B, that could replace for short time de PdA, but can't be the substitute of PdA.
Bpe can 'transport', 'hangar' or park many JSF, but to operate them is different.
There are small space for facilities, weapons store, fuel-jet tanks and other stuffs that are necessary to support airwing during operations.

[Scooter]

Originally Posted by European

Bpe is a LPD able to launch Av8b+ or F35B, that could replace for short time de PdA, but can't be the substitute of PdA.
Bpe can 'transport', 'hangar' or park many JSF, but to operate them is different.
There are small space for facilities, weapons store, fuel-jet tanks and other stuffs that are necessary to support airwing during operations.

Well, the USN LHA's/LHD's during the second Gulf War had a similar problem. While they could carry large numbers of Harriers. They couldn't carry the weapons nor provide the logistical support needed to generate the high sortie rates. That is until the someone came up with the idea to park them off shore and supply them via LCAC from other nearby ships. Of course they had to be nearly static and had to be continually supplied with ordnance...........clearly not the ideal solution yet it worked!

[swerve]

Originally Posted by stingray1003

...There is no way a ship can be a command ship, Amphibious assult ship, a helicopter carrier, a hospital ship, a troop carrier, an aircraft carrier and do all these roles well all the time. Not even a Supercarrier is tasked with all those duties.

These ships would be prepped before leaving port. ...

Exactly! If you read what the builders & the French navy say about the Mistral-class, for example, you will see that is precisely what is intended. There are various mission kits, which can be put aboard as required. E.g. hospital, troop carrier, command. The mission kits are designed so you can install a cut-down but functional version of each one.

I expect BPE will have something similar, but all I know of for sure are the amphibious & aircraft carrier modes specified on the Armada website. From what that site shows, it's clear that when operating in aircraft carrier mode, she won't be able to do amphibious ops, & vice versa.

[santi]

BPE will have some degree of modularity, in fact the light vehicle deck could be adapted like a prolongation of the hangar, more room for troops would be provided taking space from the light or heavy vehicles decks, the same for hospital facilities. When she operates like a carrier the maintenance facilities from PdA (and the personnel) will be incorporated (Spanish Armada only has personnel for one VSTOL wing onboard). The command facilities will be ever onboard and are comparable if not larger than in L-52 Castilla or R-11 PdA.
Of course, if the ship is operating like STOVL carrier amphibious operations are secondary (and use the LCU deck clearly not recommended).
Spanish Armada seems confident that BPE will be a decent carrier platform not so different of PdA, with the very exception of speed (21 kn. vs. 26), but that only will be ensured once in service.

Regards