Carvair parts :¬)

[RPSmith]

Originally Posted by Patrick Dean

I have contacted both US and European publishers. Their estimates of sales are anywhere from 800 to 4000 copies. No publisher will take anything on with sales projections of less than 5000. Consequently I spent over 40 years gathering data that will most likely will never be available in complete book form. Patrick

That includes Air Britain?? just a thought,

Roger Smith.

[Patrick Dean]

Gentlemen, Kartman, RPSmith,

The Cockpit is relatively complete. The seats are rotted and torn, many gauges are still in place. The overhead is complete and untouched. The yokes are complete and center console throttles, etc. There are no radios. The radio rack had a poster with DC-4 photos and description of military DC-4 service. This is what I felt was misleading since none of this part of the airframe was ever a DC-4 but the ATEL manufactured nose. It was being presented as a relic with history from WW-2.

Now as for publishers and the possiblity of a book. Yes my manuscript was sent to AB several years ago for editing and the possiblity of being published,
however it has not progressed. Now it is true that non-military and commercial aircraft books do not fair well in the market. Many of you may be AB members with better inside contacts than I have. My feelings which should not be quoted as fact are, AB has to make decisions on what is economically best. I believe that past monographs on certain types have not faired well leaving unsold volumes which would affect the decision to take on the Carvair as a book. I would be delighted if AB were interested and if anyone has influence I would be most greatful.

It is somewhat depressing that 40 years of data collection (manuals, press releases, advertising material, memorabilia, etc.) plus a collection of thousands of photos showing all 21 ships in every livery and registration will never be available in book form. I have compiled a 165,000 word text of not only the events and history that created the Carvair but the story of each individual ship from roll-out as DC-4 through conversion to last resting place as a Carvair.

Although we are all Carvair enthusiast, there are less than 10,000 people world wide that even could identify it. Only about half would be interested in a book and probably only half of those would actually cough up $60-70 that it would most like cost.

I am entertaining all suggestions and ideas,

Patrick

[Tillerman]

Originally Posted by Patrick Dean

there are less than 10,000 people world wide that even could identify it. Only about half would be interested in a book and probably only half of those would actually cough up $60-70 that it would most like cost.
Patrick

I would buy your book, without hesitating for a tenth of a second. I love that airplane since I saw it as a kid. I lived near Rotterdam Airport (Zestienhoven) then, and I saw lots of Carvairs clawing their way up in the air right after take-off and I was impressed by the sight and sound.
Later on I had different jobs at RTM ( last job was dispatcher). During the early '80s I had to clear out the archives of the company I worked for, and amongst the rubbish which emerged from the basement was a box full of wonderful (lots of them Carvair-) pics, which were used in the company magazine during the '60s and early '70s. Instead of throwing them into the bin I asked if I could have them; and yes I could, so they're now in MY basement . I am no expert on copyrights, so I am reluctant to put them up on any site, as I can give no credit.

But there must be an exception for this Carvair-dedicated topic: here is an old publicity shot of G-ASHZ (aka N89FA), when she was brand spanking new and taken just a few minutes after the ceremony when she was christened with her original name: "Maasbrug", after a famous bridge in Rotterdam. The officials are walking away, no doubt to enjoy the delights of well filled tables with food and drinks. And there were a lot more of such pictures in that box...

Tillerman.

[Patrick Dean]

Tillerman,
Thanks for your kind words and desire for the book. That is about five of us now, so we only need 4995 more and it is published. Do you recall a crash landing of G-ASDC at Rotterdam on 17 Feb 1970. I would like very much to obtain more details and a photo. Many enthusiast confuse this incident with the loss of G-ARSF at Rotterdam on 28 Dec 1962.

Is there anyway to obtain copies of the photos you have. Even if credit can not be established I would like to study them. Photos don't lie and if we know the dates they were taken a lot of data can be obtained and possibly who took them. I have spent many evenings with a magnifying glass pouring over photos and making notes of interesting points.

I know exactly how you felt finding the photos. I was once sent to clean out a hangar and found a large wooden box with a zeus fastener latch. I took out a coin and opened it and there was a large metal display model of a Viscount. I asked if I could have the box and they said sure. I did not tell them the Viscount was in it. It sits in my office today. A few years ago I was at a reunion and some one was talking about the model that sat in the managers office. I admitted to having it and how I got it. They said we are so glad that you saved it. We were afraid that it had not been preserved and we know that the right person has it now. That will make you humble!

Patrick

[jaybeebee]

Count me in! Id buy too young to remember them actually flying but I too think the a beautiful plane and I think in thread Jamie posted a link to a video of one actually flying. A very gracefull bird!

[Tillerman]

Patrick, just sent you a PM.

Tillerman.

[jaybeebee]

theres a couple of diecast models of BAF Carvair G-ASKN on ebay at mo if anyones interested...............

[Fouga23]

I'll buy one. I think there are a few publishers who do small run books. I'd say a softcover could be done.

[Jamie-Southend]

ditto

[Patrick Dean]

Gentlemen;
All of your suggestions are greatly appreciated. I have considered a softback book however there are limits. I have collected data and photographs for 40 years to complete the fleet history of the Carvair. A softback book is only practical up to a certain number of pages. A complete work with five to seven hundred photos and 165,000 words cannot be produced in softback.

For those of you not aware a softback abreviated history of the Carvair was produced a few years ago. A much better approach would be a complete work. A good example is the recent book on the Caravelle by John Wegg. This work covers the complete history of a type in detail. The volume of data is impressive. Two other books which are not quite as large as the Caravelle book but do give a good type accounting are the CL-44 story by Malcolm Porter and Magnesium Overcast (B-36) by Dennis Jenkins. It has been my intent to produce a quality historical accounting of the entrie Carvair fleet with photos of each ship in every livery and registration. The photos show each ship from DC-4 through Carvair conversion to crash scene or breakup. This will be complemented with factory production photos, drawings, advertising material, memeorabilia, etc.

Simply put, I am not yet ready to compromise the content, scope and size just to get a Carvair book published. I have followed these unique aircraft all over the world since I first saw them in the 1960s. I have compiled a quality data base which is possibly one of the most complete accountings that exist. I have attempted to combine all the historical, anecdotal, humorous, and tragic stories into one flowing account. I have interviewed crews, owners, mechanics, passengers, etc. and found all of them to become nostalgic and talk about the Carvair with affection and fondness like it is and old friend. The Carvair truly has a place in aviation history. From my point of view it has been underated and the impact not realized. Anything less than a full accounting should not be considered.

I am very appreciative to all of your interest and support and hopefully a book will eventually become reality.

Patrick Dean

[jaybeebee]

Has anyone built one of the pastic kits of carvair that are available? Ive got one and it's built, just want to paint in British United Air Ferries colours. Anyone have an idea as to what colours should be used (or close substitute?)

Cheers

Jamie

[ronald wilson]

Originally Posted by jaybeebee

theres a couple of diecast models of BAF Carvair G-ASKN on ebay at mo if anyones interested...............

HI TO ALL CARVAIR LOVERS I WORKED WITH THEM AT ATEL SOUTHEND AIRPORT , IN FACT I DAMAGED THE VERY FIRST ONE !!!! AND GOT THE SACK FREDDIE LAKER SACKED ME ON THE SPOT , BUT I GOT MY JOB BACK 6MONTHS LATER, CARVAIRS HAVE BEEN MY PASSION EVER SINCE ,I'M LOOKING FOR A MODEL , SO WILL LOOK ON EBAY THANKS RON

[David Burke]

There seems to be an underground element of Carvair admirers in the U.K - if only the love affair could be consumated with one of the type returning to the U.K !

[cessna152towser]

Wow, that big model is impressive and brings back memories.
Here is a picture of G-ASDC taken at Ostend on 1st August 1969 by Dougie Barr, who was one of our group of four who took a day trip from Southend to Ostend, one way on G-ASDC and the other on G-ASKN. By a happy co-incidence Dougie has also captured in the background the only Britannia which I ever flew in, G-ANBI.

[cessna152towser]

More unashamed nostalgia from my scrapbook pages about my Carvair trip.
My notes suggest the aircraft was configured for 3 cars and 34 pax.
The ruther fuzzy shot of G-ASDC boarding at Southend was taken by my mother from the spectators' enclosure.

[Jamie-Southend]

I had almost forgotten the "spectators' enclosure" or "The Waving off Terrace" to give its official title!

[HP81]

Count me in for a copy of the book. If books like Swingtail & the Canadair North Star made it to publication I am sure one on the ATL98 would do just as well. I have both of the books mentioned & would like alot more like them.

[wessex boy]

Originally Posted by Jamie-Southend

I had almost forgotten the "spectators' enclosure" or "The Waving off Terrace" to give its official title!

Spent many an hour on there in the early '70s whilst Mum & Dad went for a drink with my Grandad in the airport bar (he worked for Channel) Coke in a real bottle with 2 straws, a bag of crisps and Carvairs what more could a 5 year old want?

[jaybeebee]

Originally Posted by ronald wilson

HI TO ALL CARVAIR LOVERS I WORKED WITH THEM AT ATEL SOUTHEND AIRPORT , IN FACT I DAMAGED THE VERY FIRST ONE !!!! AND GOT THE SACK FREDDIE LAKER SACKED ME ON THE SPOT , BUT I GOT MY JOB BACK 6MONTHS LATER, CARVAIRS HAVE BEEN MY PASSION EVER SINCE ,I'M LOOKING FOR A MODEL , SO WILL LOOK ON EBAY THANKS RON

They're a great model, I bought one and really impressed. For a small scale, its heavy!!!

[Old Fart]

You can count me in foe a copy too

[Patrick Dean]

Gentlemen,
All this enthusiasm and desire for the book is very encouraging. However we still need at least 1000 more to consider a break even on cost. (Hope springs eternal).
I am fascinated with some of your comments.
Ronald there are a number of models on ebay. There are both metal 1/200 scale and the larger wood models. If you want to build one the old vacu-form kits are still out there of a 1/72 scale.

[Patrick Dean]

Jamie and Ronald,
Here is a 1/72 model I have of G-ASKN.

[jaybeebee]

ah ha!! Thats what In in process of building and thats exactly the scheme Im looking for. What colours did you use?

[Patrick Dean]

Originally Posted by jaybeebee

ah ha!! Thats what In in process of building and thats exactly the scheme Im looking for. What colours did you use?

I sent you a PM with all the colors and codes. Good luck!

[cessna152towser]

Well after seeing it on this thread, I've now bought one of the 1/200 scale diecast models on e-bay and all I need now is a copy of the book once its published. I'm sure there is enough interest out there in this aircraft to justify publishing the book.

[jaybeebee]

Originally Posted by Patrick Dean

I sent you a PM with all the colors and codes. Good luck!

Many thanks!!

[wessex boy]

Nice model!
Got me to thinking that a 1/12 scale RC model might be interesting to see fly, I'll add it to the list for when I finish my Channel Airways Dak.
Perhaps I can Recreate Southend in the early '70s...The Channel DC4, a Viking and a Trident are also on my to-build list, at least the DC4 and Carvair would share some common parts

[Patrick Dean]

Gentlemen,

Does anyone recall or have knowledge of the two following incidents. I know they both occured but have little facts.

Carvair G-AOFW over ran the runway at Coventry pre 1967. It came to stop with the main gear in a drain culvert and the nose in the road. I would like to know the date and any details.

In 1971 an unidentified Carvair arrived at Southampton to pick up cargo and had an engine failure. It already had a car on board. Another Carvair was dispatched to pick up the load. Southampton did not have a car loader so the two aircraft were positioned nose to nose and the car transferred. I would like to know the aircraft involved and details.

Any additional facts or photos would be greatly appreciated.

[Tillerman]

Originally Posted by Patrick Dean

Southampton did not have a car loader so the two aircraft were positioned nose to nose and the car transferred.

Now that must have been an interesting sight: two Carvairs positioned nose to nose and a car driving from one into the other!

Obviously some technical problems were handled in creative ways which would be not be acceptable now. One of the older ops officers in the handling company I worked for, was full of stories from the old days. One of them was about a Carvair with a non-functioning starter motor in one of the engines. As this defect could not be repaired at Rotterdam (no spare parts, no licensed mechanic), the captain decided to take-off on three engines, windmill the engine into action, landed back, shut down the three good engines and have the pax boarded quickly with the one faulty engine running, and took off again. Problem solved, everybody happy.

Tillerman.

[Patrick Dean]

Tillerman, Do you know the date, aircraft, or Captain of the windmilling incident. This is the type of stories that I am looking for to fill out the fleet history. If they can be connected to a specific aircraft it makes the story more interesting.

Also if anyone reading this can help me contact Ronald Wilson. I would like to here his account of driving the forklift into G-ANYB.