N011M detection range?

[bring_it_on]

what is the detection range of the n-011M bars-I? against a taret of RCS 1m^2?? could u also provide reference to this information please.

[flex297]

For bomber-sized aircraft N011M has a 350 km search range and a 200 km tracking range. Maximum search range for the F-16 in BVR head to head with an f-16 sized target at the range of 140-160 kms. With new transmiter components up to 180 kms.

http://www.edefenseonline.com/defaul..._10_2005_OM_01

http://www.f-16.net/f-16_forum_viewt...-start-60.html

These only may be forums, but I got an offical prospect of Phazotron with exactly the same figures (350 kms/200 kms and 140-160 kms against an F-16). A conventional F-16 has frontal RCS approx. 5 sq m, so a 1 sq m target could have different numbers..

[bring_it_on]

Detection Range Formula: [New RCS/Old RCS]^.25 * original detection range= new detection range.

[flex297]

Originally Posted by bring_it_on

Detection Range Formula: [New RCS/Old RCS]^.25 * original detection range= new detection range.

Nice, thanks!

OK, so this would be 94 - 107 kms, with new transmitter parts some 120 km for 1 sq m target..

[Harry]

350 km search range was originally supposed to be against a loaded Su-27. 400 km against bomber. Wish someone got real figures from the IAF itself but I doubt they'll divulge it.

I'm surprised that the primary functions of the new Vetrivale RCs (RC-1 and 2) was never published/posted : 1) Automatic PRF selection for targets moving at blind speeds 2) Increase of target tracking capability to 8 targets (each).

These only may be forums, but I got an offical prospect of Phazotron with exactly the same figures (350 kms/200 kms and 140-160 kms against an F-16).

??

[George J]

Originally Posted by Harry

I'm surprised that the primary functions of the new Vetrivale RCs (RC-1 and 2) was never published/posted : 1) Automatic PRF selection for targets moving at blind speeds 2) Increase of target tracking capability to 8

Source?

Also waddya expect from an AF that still like to confuse folks about its MTOW/LTOW.

[flex297]

Originally Posted by Harry

??

That is the name of designer and manufacturer company...

[bring_it_on]

Thats pretty good range..Similar to the block 60 f-16..

[Harry]

Flex, the N011M is by JSC NIIP, not Phazotron.

Similar to the block 60 f-16..

No way could that teency weency APG-80 in the F-16's nose have comparable range? Does it even have space for liquid cooling?

[flex297]

Originally Posted by bring_it_on

Thats pretty good range..Similar to the block 60 f-16..

Well, on behalf of F-16E I got to mention that the APG-80 is somewhat smaller in size. That makes its performance pretty remarkable. Well, of course, it costs a hell, but Sheiks obviously do not mind...

I would be very interested how BARS-29 would perform...

[Harry]

I would be very interested how BARS-29 would perform...

http://img279.echo.cx/my.php?image=n...29front9zl.jpg
http://img279.echo.cx/my.php?image=n...s29back2wp.jpg

Brochure scan by JaiS.

[flex297]

Originally Posted by Harry

Flex, the N011M is by JSC NIIP, not Phazotron.

Ooops. lemme see at home.. Many people usually refer to any Russian radar manufacturer as Phazotron. Try to google for *Phazotron n011m* and see how many links you find..

I have found some more things to this topic, a BARS' earlier variant, fitted with a five-kilowatt transmitter, proved to be capable of acquiring a Su-27 sized fighter at a range of over 330 km.

BTW, the manufacturer claims the AN/APG-80 to have detective range of twice the range of AN/APG-68(V)7. So, theoretically, it could be quite on par with N011M

[flex297]

Originally Posted by Harry

http://img279.echo.cx/my.php?image=n...29front9zl.jpg
http://img279.echo.cx/my.php?image=n...s29back2wp.jpg

Brochure scan by JaiS.

Thanks!

So that could be some 67 - 80 km for 1 sq m target.

[flex297]

Do we got more figures?

Aviation Week gives APG-77 range for 1 sq m at some 120 nautical miles, ergo some 220 kms. That would likely be the best performer. What about other devices: APG-79, APG-73, RBE-2, Captor, RDI-2, Ericsson PS-05? Missed something important?

[bring_it_on]

Aviation Week gives APG-77 range for 1 sq m at some 120 nautical miles

the APG-77 radar range has been reported by aviation week to be 125nm for a 1 m^2 target using the LPI mode..however that is taken using the basic ATF reqirement..the flight test data has shown the f/a-22 (production varient) to have a 5% advantage in the radar range over that ATF requirement..so the actual range is somewhere in between 125 and 132 nm which is roughly 200-210 km.

No way could that teency weency APG-80 in the F-16's nose have comparable range? Does it even have space for liquid cooling?

Not a lot is known of the apg-80 or the apg-81 for that matter..tha apg 80's radar range quoted by me is from a AW article dated 3/13/00 pg. 24. and has the following information pretaining to the apg-80 and the blk 60...

The Block 60 F-16 will have several features sure to be envied by U.S. pilots, said a Lockheed Martin official:
Anactiye electronically scanned array (AESA) radar that produces a classified 70-80-mile range against a l-meter-square target. Thats about 10-20 mi. better than the current top-of-the-line F-15C interceptor and three times better than the current USAF F-16. The longer range radar will make the F-16 a much more lethal platform for employing beyond-visual-range air-to-air missiles such as the AIM-120. Moreover, it employs frequency hopping for low-probability-of-intercept operation, a technique to slow detection by a foe.
An electronic warfare package that includes the most advanced electronic countermeasures and radar counter-counter-measures.
The aircraft's radar counter-counter-measures system is the first operational system with an "adaptive cross-polarization capability against coherent monopulse Doppler radars," the Lockheed Martin official said. Less technically, that means the Block 60 will have a defensive system especially designed to foil the most advanced double-digit surface-to-air-missiles. Double-digit SAM systems include the 80-120-mile-range, Russian-made SA-10s and SA-l2s and the emerging S-400 family of missiles with an advertised range of up to 240 mi. The radar's electronic counter-countermeasures use spread-spectrum techniques to see through jamming. In all, the EW system offers 11 new or updated technologies for foiling radars and radar-guided missiles. However, the transfer of these techniques did not require the release of U.S. control over source codes for the EW or radar computers.
Since the UAE will absorb at least $1 billion in Block 60 F-16 development costs, Lockheed Martin hopes to reinterest the U.S. Air Force in buying some Block 60 fighters of its own. Currently, USAF is buying what is supposed to be its last 20 Block 50 F-16s for an active-duty squadron at Cannon AFB, N.M., dedicated to "suppression bf enemy air defenses" (SEAD) in Fiscal 2003-05. However, there is an effort to get the purchase of 12 fighters moved into Fiscal 2001. The accelerated purchase would allow USAF's lOth SEAD unit to go into service in Fiscal 2005, two years early, and would allow the Air National Guard to receive F-16Cs ahead of time, speeding retirement of the last F-16As by two years to Fiscal 2005.
The UAE deal could also bolster Lockheed Martin's bid to win the ongoing competition in Norway, where it is pitted against the Eurofighter Typhoon. The U.S. company has offered the Norwegians both Block 50+ and Block 60 versions and now has a customer on contract for the latter ready to pay a: portion of the development costs.
Dain M. Hancock, president of Fort Worth-based Lockheed Martin Aeronau- tics Co. (LMAC), said the F-16s for the UAE will be produced at the Plant 4 facility leased by the company from the U.S. Air Force. Deliveries are expected to begin in 2004 and continue through 2007.
The UAE order for 80 fighters-coupled with 30 for the U.S. Air Force, 24 for Egypt, 50 for Greece and another 50 for Israelis projected to keep the F-16 production line operating for at least an- other seven years until introduction of the Joint Strike Fighter. As of late last week, UAE officials had not selected an engine to power the F-16s, but an LMAC official said a decision is expected "very soon." Pratt & Whitney and General Electric are offering increased-performance, derivative engines, designated as the F100-PW-232 and the F110-GE-132, respectively. Both powerplants are rated at 32,500-lb. static thrust at sea level.

As far as the apg-79 radar is concerned it should be atleast as good as the apg-80 if not better..since the naval sect..long time back used the word LONG RANGE when he introduced his talk on network centric warfare pretaining to the SH and the apg-79..as a matter of fact the navy really wanted a LONG RANGE radar for the hornets and super hornets..here is the brochure for the apg-79

http://www.raytheon.com/products/ste...s01_050830.pdf

These AESA radars are absolutely great and a giant leap in technology over legacy 63.64's....have a new friend at wright patt who was responsible for integration of some of the maintance equipment for the AESA birds down at elmendorf and he used to tell me that the pilots who flew these were all drooling over the capabilities , range etc that it was able to add...imagine having flown all this time with the standard 63 and finally when the f-15's comes to its last legs do they get to fly with them...lucky chaps i would say.Too bad no more f-15C's will be getting this radar due to cost cuts however the E varients would be getting them post 2010 i believe.

the APG-63(V)2,apg-79,apg80 are all great peices of technology and awsome retrofits..the apg-77 and apg-80 have some series software behind them aswell!!..these radars will still have their capabilities enhanced with the sub-varients comming up over the years..just like the apg-77 has had a new varient just introduced some days back which incorporated some latest technology from the apg-81 radar making it more maintanable and cheaper to manufactering while slightly improving its capability..the next big radar project for the USAF is the multi-radar-platoform -insertion program which will take the AESA radars that we see even further and come up with a SCALABLE-MODULAR radar that can be scaled up or down in size to be incorporated into various manned and unmanned asstes...the USAF is spending 2-4 billion dollars in comming up with this and be sure the apg-77,79,80,81 will benefit from newer technologies developed from this/these radars..here is more on this...

The Multi-Platform Radar Technology Insertion Program was originally a Joint STARS radar upgrade. The program will provide dramatically improved radar performance, accuracy, and revisit rate. The program requires a new datalink -- the next generation data link, the Multi-Platform Common Data Link (MP-CDL). MP-RTIP was restructured in 2000 to develop a common modular, scaleable radar, in three sizes:

Large - Wide Area Surveillance (WAS) Platform TBD in FY02 (e.g. MMA, E-8C)
Medium - NATO
Small - Global Hawk
The team will develop the design of a common, modular, scaleable Active Electrically Scanned Array or AESA radar. Northrop Grumman/Raytheon's new MP-RTIP high-resolution synthetic-aperture ground surveillance radar is expected to make the transition from an upgraded E-8 Joint-STARS aircraft to the Global Hawk unmanned reconnaissance aircraft in 2009 and, finally, to the new, manned wide-area surveillance (WAS) aircraft by 2010.

While MP-RTIP resolution is classified, it has reportedly improved to about one foot, from more than 12-14 feet in the JSTARS radar. Resolution and range are a function of the radar's antenna size, and are improved by the new generation of electronically scanned transmit and receive modules. The Global Hawk's antenna will be 1.5 ft. high and 5 ft. long. For a larger manned platform, the size grows to 2 ft. high and 18 ft. long for export and 2 ft. X 24 ft. for the currently undefined WAS aircraft.MP-RTIP will give the U.S. Air Force a tremendous increase in its ability to detect, track and identify both stationary and moving ground vehicles. This modular technology builds on the demonstrated value and capability of the Joint STARS system, and is readily adaptable to both manned and unmanned systems.

Northrop Grumman will apply its experience on programs such as the U.S. Air Force F-22, F-16 Block 60 and the Lockheed Martin Joint Strike Fighter to design an active electronically scanned array radar with sub-arrays that can be assembled into antennas of different sizes.

The United States is offering MP-RTIP technology to NATO to meet the alliance's stated requirement for its own AGS system. NATAR will meet NATO's need for a multinational system that is strategic and tactical as well as completely interoperable with other similar national systems.

http://www.irconnect.com/noc/pages/n....mhtml?d=45031

SOME PICS




APG-77~~~~DA BOSS!



apg-63(v)2





apg-79

[Harry]

Good read. What are the scan zone limits for the western radars? I assume they don't exceed 70 deg. in azimuth and elevation, given the limitations faced with all phased arrays?

[flex297]

Originally Posted by bring_it_on

the APG-77 radar range has been reported by aviation week to be 125nm for a 1 m^2 target using the LPI mode..however that is taken using the basic ATF reqirement..the flight test data has shown the f/a-22 (production varient) to have a 5% advantage in the radar range over that ATF requirement..so the actual range is somewhere in between 125 and 132 nm which is roughly 200-210 km.

1 nautical mile equals 1.852 km, ergo 125-132 miles are likely 231.5 - 244.5 kms Damn, what a beast!

[bring_it_on]

sorry harry was adding some more info..Will work on that and post ASAP

[bring_it_on]

1 nautical mile equals 1.852 km, ergo 125-132 miles are likely 231.5 - 244.5 kms

bring_it_on :- smashes himself on the head.


HARRY-

The AN/APG-77 radar antenna is a elliptical, active electronically scanned antenna array of 2000 transmitter/receive modules which provides agility, low radar cross section and wide bandwidth. The radar is able to sweep 120 degrees of airspace instantaneously. In comparison to the F-15 Strike Eagle's APG-70 radar takes 14 seconds to scan that amount of airspace. The APG-77 is capable of performing this feat by electronically forming multiple radar beams to rapidly search the airspace.

The system exhibits a very low radar cross section, supporting the F-22's stealthy design. Reliability of the all-solid-state system is expected to be substantially better than the already highly reliable F-16 radar, with MTBF predicted at more than 450 hours.

The APG-77 radar offers significant advantages over previous combat radars. Among its most attractive benefits is the integration of agile beam steering. This feature allows a single APG-77 radar to carry out multiple functions, such as searching, tracking, and engaging targets simultaneously. Agile beam steering also enables the radar to concurrently search multiple portions of airspace, while allowing continued tracking of priority targets.

The Low Probability of Intercept (LPI) capability of the radar defeats conventional RWR/ESM systems. The AN/APG-77 radar is capable of performing an active radar search on RWR/ESM equipped fighter aircraft without the target knowing he is being illuminated. Unlike conventional radars which emit high energy pulses in a narrow frequency band, the AN/APG-77 emits low energy pulses over a wide frequency band using a technique called spread spectrum transmission. When multiple echoes are returned, the radar's signal processor combines the signals. The amount of energy reflected back to the target is about the same as a conventional radar, but because each LPI pulse has considerably less amount of energy and may not fit normal modulation patterns, the target will have a difficult time detecting the F-22.

The F-22 and its APG-77 radar will also be able to employ better Non-Cooperative Target Recognition (NCTR). This is accomplished by forming fine beams and by generating a high resolution image of the target by using Inverse Synthetic Aperture radar (ISAR) processing. ISAR uses Doppler shifts caused by rotational changes in the targets position to create a 3D map of the target. The target provides the Doppler shift and not the aircraft illuminating the target. SAR is when the aircraft provides the Doppler shift. The pilot can compare the target with an actual picture radar image stored in the F-22's data base.

GLOBAL SECURITY

I really could not find more info on the others but i would believe that the raytheon manufactered apg-79 would or should have similar qualities.

[Hyperwarp]

F-16 ABR 275 km (came across this same figure at another aite)

http://www.users.globalnet.co.uk/~dh...es/PG/PGSA.htm

have just one tiny pic of the AN/APG-80

[bring_it_on]

then post it

[Hyperwarp]

Originally Posted by bring_it_on

then post it

Last time you didn't like it....

[bring_it_on]

no no..... i have changed now

[Hyperwarp]

Promise you won't complain??

PS: whats the difference between the APG-63(V)2 and the V3??

[bring_it_on]

Promise you won't complain??

jeez from the pic i can see that the radar will be quite successful...lol

[bring_it_on]

Damn, what a beast!

yeah..even by simply looking at the apg-77 one cans ee that it is considerably bigger in size over the apg-79 and 63v2..the raptor would also get side arrays in 2012 i believe..

[fencer2000]

what's the weight of n011m(bars 30) ? bars 29 is 250kg ....

[bring_it_on]

No way could that teency weency APG-80 in the F-16's nose have comparable range

harry found this on a general quality of AESA radars..good read..

Aircraft that use passive ESA radars include the U.S. Air Force’s B-1B bomber and E-8 Joint Surveillance Target Attack Radar System and the French Rafale fighter.

Breakthroughs in T/R module manufacturing and miniaturization in recent years — Northrop Grumman and Raytheon use what they call sixth-generation T/R module technology — at last have made it feasible to fit large numbers of the modules in a lightweight AESA antenna in the nose of a fighter aircraft.

“To populate a radar with many hundreds of these T/R modules and getting them to act together is revolutionary. In fact, taking all the moving parts out of airborne radars is revolutionary,” said Scott Porter, director of aerospace business development at Northrop Grumman-Baltimore.

“For the same amount of real estate on an aircraft, especially fighters, you can cram a lot more of the T/R modules into an antenna and fill up more of the aircraft than you can with an MSA. Instead of one moving antenna with a transmitter black box behind it trying to pump out power, you now have many, many T/R modules mounted together in the same space all staring at the same place at the same time.”

AESA life-cycle costs are expected to be significantly lower than those of MSAs, Porter said, because their electronics will be more reliable and easier to fix than the moving parts in an MSA assembly. Indeed, Northrop Grumman is so confident in the reliability of the Joint Strike Fighter’s APG-81 radar that it may recommend that the nose radome be sealed. Though this would make it harder to repair the system, Northrop Grumman engineers say the radar will function properly for years, and that it could lose up to 6 percent of its T/R modules without affecting performance. “We don’t expect many radomes to be removed after our AESA radars are installed,” Porter said.

Similarly, Raytheon says the mean time between critical failures of its APG-79 radar going on the Navy’s Super Hornets is in excess of 15,000 hours of operation, and claims its AESA antenna might require no maintenance for 10 to 20 years. The only operational fighter aircraft currently equipped with an AESA radar are 18 U.S. Air Force F-15Cs with the 3rd Fighter Wing at Elmendorf Air Force Base, Alaska. They have flown for about five years with the APG-63(V)2 developed by Raytheon Space and Airborne Systems, El Segundo, Calif. That radar, no more of which will be built, is a predecessor to the company’s more advanced Navy APG-79. It was an AESA antenna upgrade to the F-15’s APG-63(V)1 MSA radar designed to add a capability to target small cruise missile-size targets. The APG-63(V)1 MSA remains in full-rate production.

Raytheon has been developing a lighter-weight, more maintainable AESA radar for the Air Force’s other 161 F-15Cs — the APG-63(V)3 — and has built a prototype that will be tested by the service. However, due to budget constraints, those aircraft may never get the upgrade. The Air Force firmly plans to modernize the MSA radar on its 224 newer F-15E ground-attack models, beginning around 2010, likely with an APG-63(V)4 radar from Raytheon that will use the AESA antenna from the (V)3, as well as processors from the Navy’s APG-79.

Drawing on APG-79 technology, the (V)3 AESA uses more compact “tile” T/R modules compared with the (V)2’s larger “brick” modules. The tiles reduce the number of required T/R modules by a factor of four and the depth of the antenna array from nine inches to four inches, said Michael Henchey, Raytheon’s director of strategy and business development for Air Combat Avionics. They also reduce the weight of the array significantly.

Raytheon, following a year of flight testing, began delivering the first low-rate initial production versions of the APG-79 in January to F/A-18 manufacturer Boeing Integrated Defense Systems, St. Louis. The radar is a key element of Block II upgrades preplanned for the Navy’s Super Hornets, which became operational in 2001. The service will conduct operational testing of the LRIP radars on Super Hornets in October and November. Full-rate production of 415 APG-79s is scheduled to begin in 2007.

Bill Gardner, Raytheon’s APG-79 engineering, manufacturing and development program manager, said the radar will detect and track twice as many targets at greater distances than the APG-73, permitting the aircrew to “persistently observe targets and launch air-to-air missiles from their maximum range.” The radar system automatically establishes tracking files for each detected target, reducing pilot workload.

Another key feature of the APG-79 will be its ability to conduct air-to-air and air-to-ground operations essentially simultaneously because it can switch modes so rapidly. The pilot will be able to conduct ground mapping with the radar while it continues searching for and tracking aerial targets.

“With interleaved air-to-air and air-to-surface cockpit displays, the aircrew will be able to maintain situational awareness while executing air-to-surface missions,” Gardner said.

AESA radars also offer better air-to-ground resolution than MSA systems, particularly using their synthetic aperture radar (SAR) mode. As a March 2004 Government Accountability Office report stated, “The first F/A-18F with the AESA radar installed recently demonstrated high-resolution SAR modes at three times the resolution and 2½ times the range of the currently operationally deployed F/A-18 radar. This capability represents the first step in multiple areas that the AESA radar will greatly improve the F/A-18E/F Super Hornet’s air-to-air and air-to-ground radar capabilities in addition to adding modes not currently available to the fleet.”

OTHER AESA RADARS

Early this year, Northrop Grumman-Baltimore delivered the first APG-81 AESA radar for the Lockheed Martin F-35 Joint Strike Fighter. It is undergoing development flight tests onboard Northrop Grumman’s BAC 1-11 flying test-bed aircraft. Late this year, the radar will go to Lockheed Martin’s Mission Systems Integration Lab for testing to integrate it with the rest of the mission systems suite.

A joint venture of Northrop Grumman-Baltimore and Raytheon Network-Centric Systems, McKinney, Texas, has been developing the APG-77 AESA radar for the F/A-22 fighter for nearly 15 years. The radar flew on a preproduction aircraft for the first time in late 2000. Its T/R modules have been improved over time, and software allowing the radar to perform high-resolution mapping of ground targets is being added.

A fourth-generation variant of the APG-77, with design improvements adapted from the APG-81, flew for the first time last June. “We are inserting our fourth-generation AESA technology into the F/A-22’s Lot 5 of production, and that radar is in flight-test now,” Porter said. “So the F-35 and F/A-22 will have highly common radars at that point.” Pentagon officials approved the F/A-22 for full production at the end of March; the fighter will become operational in December.

TAKEN FROM THE JOURNAL OF NET CENTRIC WARFARE

[bring_it_on]

WELL NORTHROP GRUMMAN HAS FINALLY RELEASED PICS OF THE APG-81 AESA RADAR GOING ONBOARD THE F-35 AS WELL AS THAT OF THE DAS (DIRECT APERTURE SYSTEM)...AS WELL AS OF THE MESA RADAR AND OTHER NG DEVELOPED COMPONENTS OF INTEREST AS FOLLOWS..

1) APG-81 ANTENNA

The AN/APG-81 AESA radar for the F-35 JSF will enable pilots to effectively engage air and ground targets at long range, while also providing outstanding situational awareness for enhanced survivability. The AN/APG-81 provides precision, time-critical all weather targeting through advanced air-to-air combat capabilities, high-resolution air-to-ground mapping and supports automatic target cueing.

2) F-35 DAS

The F-35 JSF Electro-Optical Distributed Aperture System (DAS) will provide pilots with a unique protective sphere around the aircraft for enhanced situational awareness, missile warning, aircraft warning, day/night pilot vision, and fire-control capability. For offensive operations, DAS provides day/night imaging and targets without the use of night vision goggles, off-axis targeting for air-to-air missiles and enables the development of advanced tactics through sharing a common operational picture.


3) NIGHT HUNTER

4) LITTENING POD