The Best Combat Helicopter

[Flogger]

Which combat helicopter is the best

[Aurel]

As heavy Gunship I think the Mil Mi-28, with the Apache as second western option. As scout/light escort I would prefer the EC Tiger, maybe the Ninja as alternative in this role.

[PilotDKH]

Ya,probably Apache Longbow.But AH-1W Super Cobra is not that great.That's why it's being upgraded to AH-1Z standard.Now AH-1Z is a very good 1.

[Showtime 100]

I heard the Longbow of Apache can do wonder! While Tiger is famous for its ease of use in system and flight control! Apache in my opinion.

[Malin]

A stupid question Is Eurocopter Bo 105 the same helicopter as HKP 9 in Sweden? I have heard from people in the Army flight that the HKP 9 is one off the best light Attack shoppers out there
HKP 9
http://www.scramble.nl/mil/2/sf/gfx/hkp9.jpg

[flex297]

Originally Posted by PilotDKH

Ya,probably Apache Longbow.But AH-1W Super Cobra is not that great.That's why it's being upgraded to AH-1Z standard.Now AH-1Z is a very good 1.

Apache has been independently evaluated as the weaker one from the tandem AH-64 vs Mi-28. The test have been performed by Swedes who were initially interested in several dozens of AH-64s. After the tests they rather have given up the idea, since Russian hardware in Swedish service does not sound too well, speaking politically.

Together with several ocassions where Apaches have showed problems with dust, high temperatures, exhaust gasses from Hellfires causing damage to rear rotor, and even vulnerability to small-caliber guns I honestly don't think this is the best what the world can offer today.

Finally, ask any Marine pilot if he would honestly give up his Whiskey Cobra for the Apache and you get some very surprising answers.

[Srbin]

Yahhh the Mi-28Nis probably the best, but I would also put the Longbow and Ka-52 right there too. When it comes to costs, Western helicopters just cannot compete with Eastern ones. The Ka-52 is rumored to cost about 12mn based on what Yemen plans to buy them for, while Apache and Tiger cost twice-three times more.

When it comes to lighter ones, I really like the Mangusta and especially AH-6J(with SPIKE-ER).

[PhantomII]

Nothing wrong with the Whiskey at all. In fact it has proven to be quite successful. The new AH-1 Zulu will be even better.

[bring_it_on]

the cancellation of the JCM further weakens the apache as one of its biggest plus points going into the future has been taken away (although i strongly think that the congress is gonna resurect the program and not cancel it)

[Srbin]

the JCM cancelled? wtf when did that happen? If so, what will actually replace the Hellfire. I see dat Russian Mi-28Ns and Ka-52s as well as many other fixed wing platforms will be getting the Hermes. I believe the helicopter launched one has a range of 18kms.

[flex297]

I would vote here for Russians, not to typically tend to Eastern stuff, but sturdiness, reliability and cost effectiveness is what Russkies definitely excel in, whereas expensive fine tuning and optimization is being left to Europeans and Yanks.

Ergo Havoc and Alligator, then Tiger and Longbow. The Zulu Cobra is a bit unexplored , but I do see this one as a black winged stallion, standing in the shadows of the mighty AH-64, but being actually more effective than its big brother. Zulu could definitely be one hell of a combat helicopter.

[Nitin_V]

Imagine a Mi-28 with the Longbow radar and all the geewhiz doodads that go into the Ah64D....

[Canpark]

I like the AH-64 due to it's success in Desert Storm, as for Mi-28, I don't think it has ever seen major combat yet...

[Indian1973]

if one can pay and maintain the complex beast, there is no question AH64D is the top predator of the heli jungle.

for people of more modest means Tigre, AH1Z and a modified Mi28(with EU/israeli kit)
should work.

[flex297]

Originally Posted by Nitin_V

Imagine a Mi-28 with the Longbow radar and all the geewhiz doodads that go into the Ah64D....

??? Why there is a need to imagine?.. The Mi-28N has full all-weather capability, just like AH-64D. It is also equipped with a mast-mounted milimeter-wave Phazotron-NIIR FH-01 Arbalet radar, it is no way inferior to Longbow Apache in terms of avionics.

[flex297]

Originally Posted by Indian1973

if one can pay and maintain the complex beast, there is no question AH64D is the top predator of the heli jungle.

.. as long as a group of freedom fighters appear and, equipped with thirty years old 7,62 mm AK-47s (each worth $370 on the black market) send this $35mil. expensive ultimate predator down to dust and ashes..

... despite of its complexity, Apache is still ridiculously vulnerable and unreliable in any extreme weather conditions..

[seahawk]

Thge most usefull and flexible must be the AH-1 which is around since NAM and in the new AH-1Z version is still up to the competition.

The most overrated must be the AH-64. During the IIPGW it did only perform magrinally better then the AH-1 or even simple Lynx or Gazelle helicopters, but later on it proved to be unable to fly in the mountains and bad weather (Kosovo) or able to withstand the fire of light armed rebels. (Iraq)

The overall best should be the Mil-28 Havoc. A flying tank with heavy weapons. The ideal choice to bring down some heavy firepower.

[over G]

costs, how many cost an AH1, AH64,Mi28, Mi24 (i think tha we are forgetting the "hind") and Ka50-52?????

[flex297]

Originally Posted by over G

costs, how many cost an AH1, AH64,Mi28, Mi24 (i think tha we are forgetting the "hind") and Ka50-52?????

The price tag for a Ka-50 was some $12mil. some years ago. Mi-28N was some $14-15 mil without the Arbalet radar (that could be some $1.5 mil extra). I have seen th eprice tag for a AH-64D at slightly over $30mil., Longbow radar was over $3mil extra.

Mi-35s (Mi-24Ps) are sold for some $4-5mil. today, but whether this is a price tag for a used example of some ex-CIS state or a fresh machine, I do not know.

[Stieglitz]

Maybe a bit obselete, but I'll go for the Hind. It was (almost) a revolution when this bird came out and I feel that it still is quite up to date at present. So it is the best chopper ever built!(in my opinion )

J.V.

[Srbin]

The Hind is good, its pretty fast, very heavily armoured, and can transport troops, but its very unmaneuverable. I feel that it's time has come with the advent of newer attack helicopters such as the Mi-28N or Ka-52 and others.

[wd1]

Originally Posted by Srbin

The Hind is good, its pretty fast, very heavily armoured, and can transport troops, but its very unmaneuverable. I feel that it's time has come with the advent of newer attack helicopters such as the Mi-28N or Ka-52 and others.

yup. i too think the Hind is a very decent helicopter. but i would any day have x number of dedicated attack choppers and x number of transport/utility choppers then 2x number of Hinds. Hind is basically a jack of both trades and master of none. when you try to make one machine do both there have to be compromises - size (a bigger target to shoot at) and lack of maneuverability in particular.

[von_herrs]

lets talk about the $$$ dimension here. like actually how many of those copters r u gonna get for like say a billion US. then talk bout the capability. same thing wif RAH-66, sure its great, but it cost 15 mil US.

[GarryB]

The current upgrades for the Hind... ie new hingeless bearingless rotor (from the Mi-28) as well as the fixed undercarriage, new smaller wings with better missile armament and new more powerful engines actually greatly improve performance and new twin 23mm cannon turret improving the work sharing in the aircraft. It can reportedly be looped and rolled and is a much more capable beast. Especially with the new FLIR turret allowing all weather day/night use.

[ink]

I'm afraid that I too am a bit of a stickler for tradition and would choose the Hind. With the new Russian upgrade it is, in terms of avionics, still a very modern machine but without the bells and whistles of the Longbow. But my favourite thing about the Hind (after the price tag, the mean appearence, the sound of one whizzing past you at low level, the shower of rockets it can deal out etc etc) is the ease of maintainence. Basically it is perfect if your budget is limited but you have to maintain a credible force of attack helicopters for anti-insurgent ops or as an anti-tank deterrent. Also, if you're operating a large number of attack helicopters you don't want them to be maintainence intensive so its ideal for larger forces as well. No wonder its proved so popular around the world.

[wd1]

is there any talk of Arbalet for the latest Hind upgrades? that would make it a very competitive choice, maneuverability won't matter so much if it can just sit 8km away and lob MMW-guided ATGMs.

IMO MMW fire control radars ala Longbow/Arbalet etc are very important for 21st century attack choppers to be considered first class. being able to ripple-fire 16 ATGMs to kill 16 tanks in seconds is fantastic capability. one brochure i read claimed Longbow increases the AH-64D's effectiveness 300% compared to AH-64A. of course this is very intangible but it at least shows the radar makes a hell of a difference.

[seahawk]

MMW guided is not so important, if you use a fire and forget IR guided missile system you can achieve the same.

[GarryB]

MMW guided is not so important, if you use a fire and forget IR guided missile system you can achieve the same.

If you are referring to Tiger then IR is almost as good, but not quite. MMW radar out to 8km or so for the apache and about 12km for the russian systems is completely all weather including dust storms and whiteouts.

With Ugroza (laser/optical guidance kits for unguided rockets) the Hind could be very capable and very low cost.

[Spacepope]

What people need to realize is that the Apache damage to ground fire in the most recent conflict was due to crappy tactics rather than any inherent shortcoming of the airframe. Flying a fleet of helos into an area loaded with DSHk's, ZPU AAMGs, RPGs, AK-47s, even Enfields is not a great idea, even less so if you don't have the strike assets to soften them up first.

On the plus side, the AH-64 that was shot down over enemy terrain managed to get the crew down safely.

[GarryB]

What people need to realize is that the Apache damage to ground fire in the most recent conflict was due to crappy tactics rather than any inherent shortcoming of the airframe.

I think what they are referring to is the fact that on several ocasions what are believed to be 50 cal rounds passed clean through the canopy... which they are not supposed to do. It is not as well armoured as they claim and certainly not better armoured than some.