Delhi Class Dystroyer VS Type 052B Destroyer

[desijatt]

Type 052B Multipurpose Missile Destroyer

Jiangnan Shipyard is currently building two new 6500t class multipurpose missile destroyers for the PLA Navy. The ships, reportedly designated Type 052B, are likely based on the hull design of the Type 051B (Luhai class) destroyer, but fitted with Russian surface-to-air missile (SAM) and fire-control radar systems.

Compared to the PLA Navy’s current Type 052 (Luhu class) and Type 051B (Luhai class) destroyers, the new Type 052B destroyers possess much better air defence capabilities, which comprises two Russian-made SA-N-12 Grizzly medium-range SAM launchers and two indigenously developed Type 730 close in weapon systems (CIWSs). Despite the lack of more sophisticated systems such as the phased array radar and vertical launch system (VLS), the destroyers are generally capable of providing limited medium-range fleet air defence.



PROGRAMME

The Type 052B is the PLA Navy’s yet another major procurement programme following the purchase of two Russian-built Sovremenny class missile destroyers in 1999 and 2000. The existence of programme like this suggests that despite the warship purchase deals with Russia, China is unlikely to depart from the self-reliance policy to reply on domestic shipbuilders to design and build modern and sophisticated warships. In fact, imported technologies are being integrated into indigenous designs to save the development costs and time.

The two ships have been built at Jiangnan Shipyard, Shanghai since 2000. The first ship (pennant number 168) was launched in May 2002, followed by the second ship (pennant number 169) in January 2003. Currently the two ships are stationed in Jiangnan Shipyard for weapon and other equipment installations. If the serial numbers of these ships are genuine, they will be deployed in the PLA Navy South Sea Fleet.



DESIGN

The displacement of the ship is about 6,500 tonne, which is roughly comparable to the Russian-made Sovremenny class. Compared to the Type 051B (Luhai class) destroyer introduced in 1999, the Type 052B apparently incorporates even more stealth features -- the sides of the vessel are sloped to minimise radar cross section, surfaces have been coated in radar-absorbent paint and the profiles of external features have been reduced. There is a stern helicopter flight deck and a hanger which can accommodate two Russian Ka-28 Helix-A ASW/SAR helicopters.



WEAPONS

The main air defence weapon systems onboard the Type 052B are two (1 front and 1 rear) Russian-made SA-N-12 Grizzly medium-range SAM launchers, guided by four Front Dome indication radars and a Top Plate 3D air-search radar. For short range air defence, two indigenous Type 730 CIWS similar to the Dutch Goalkeeper are located on both sides behind the bridge.

The 100mm single-barrel main gun on the front deck seems to be a copy of the French Creusot-Loire 100 mm gun. Four 4-cell YJ-83 (C-803) anti-ship missile launchers are fitted at midship behind the funnel. In addition, four unique multiple rocket launchers (MRLs) are fitted on the front deck to launch decoys, antisubmarine rockets, and land-attack ammunitions.

PROPULSION

The propulsion system in the form of CODOG consists of two Ukraine-made DA80/DN80 gas turbines and two indigenous diesels.



Date Last Updated: 2 July 2004

TYPE 15 DELHI CLASS


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Vessel Type: Destroyer.

Names & Pennant Numbers with commission dates:
INS Delhi D61 (15 November 1997)
INS Mysore D60 (02 June 1999)
INS Mumbai D62; Ordered - 30 March 1992, Laid Down - 12 December 1992
........................Launched - 20 March 1995, Commissioned - 22 January 2001

Structure: The Delhi Class design, for which Russia's Severnoye Design Bureau (SDB) acted as a consultant, are hybrids of Western and Russian technology - incorporating elements of the Sovremenny Class destroyer and the Rajput Class (Kashin-II) destroyer with the locally-designed Godavari Class frigate, including the frigate's most unique aspect, namely the large dual helicopter hangar for two Sea King Mk.42B helicopters. The huge missile blast deflectors on INS Delhi indicate an original intention to fit the supersonic 3M-80 (NATO: SS-N-22 Sunburn) AShM which was deemed too costly. INS Mysore and INS Mumbai lack these blast deflectors.

Displacement: 6700 - 6900 tons full load.

Dimensions: Length - 163 metres.
................Beam - 17 metres.
................Draught - 6.5 metres.

Main Machinery: The vessels are powered by two Ukrainian Zorya Production Association M36E (E for Export) gas turbine plants that produce over 64,000 hp. The M36E gas turbine plant comprise four DT-59 reversible gas turbines grouped in two pairs, driving two propellers through two RG-54 gearboxes. There are four separate Russian-made gas turbine generators, two in each engine room. Fresh air for the turbines is drawn through two large stacks, one after the bridge superstructure, and one aft.

Maximum Speed: 32+ knots.

Economical Speed: 14 - 18 knots.

Maximum Range: 5000 miles.

Complement: 360 (incl. 40 Officers).

Radar: Air Surveillance; One MR-775 Fregat MAE (NATO: Half Plate) planar array radar.

Surface Surveillance; One Bharat RAWL (Dutch Signaal LW08) radar, operating at D-band frequency. INS Mysore also has SRA-01 IFF equipment atop the radar antenna.

Navigation; Three MR-212/201 navigation radars, operating at I-band, are mounted on the foremast. JRC SATCOM (Satellite Communication) equipment is standard on these vessels. INS Mumbai can be visually differentiated from INS Mysore by it's cylindrical SATCOM antenna.

Fire Control; Refer to 'Weapons' sub-section.

Sonar: The first two vessels in the series - INS Delhi and INS Mysore - have a Bharat APSOH (Advanced Panoramic Sonar Hull) hull-mounted sonar, which provides active search with medium frequency and a Garden Reach Model 15-750 variable depth sonar, also known as HUMVAAD, which is mounted in a Canadian Indal-designed 'fish' deployed from a ramp in the transom. INS Mumbai features more advanced sonar systems, namely a Thales ATAS (Advanced Towed Array Sonar) system and a Bharat HUMSA (Hull Mounted Sonar Array) system.

Weapons: Sixteen 3M-24E (Kh-35 Uran or NATO: SS-N-25 Switchblade) AShMs, housed in four quadruple KT-184 launchers, angled at 30º, two on either side of the bridge superstructure. Equivalent to the Harpoon Block 1C AShM, these missiles have active radar homing (ARH) out to a range of 130 km at 0.9 Mach, with a 145 kg warhead. All 16 missiles can be ripple-fired in 2-3 second intervals. The Delhi Class will be retrofitted with the GLONASS-steered, land-attack 3M24E1 Uranium AShM at a later date. The 3M24E1 AShM - export variant of the 3M24M1 - has more fuel, which extends range to 250 km.

Fire control for the missiles, is provided by a Garpun-Bal FC (NATO: Plank Shave) radar, mounted atop the bridge. This radar combines active and passive channels and in the active target designation mode, it operates in X-band (I/J-band) and can handle up to 150 targets at ranges between 35 - 45 km, although it is possible to obtain ranges of more than 180 km in wave-guide propagation conditions. The passive channel operates in the ESM mode searching for pulse and CW signals, and accurately identifying the bearing of hostile emitters from a built-in classification library of up to 1000 signatures. The maximum range of the passive channel is over 100 km depending on the frequency.

In the air defence role, a pair of 3S-90 launchers - one installed forward of the bridge and the other atop the dual helicopter hangar - are fitted with the Shtil SAM system. The Shtil system comprises of the 9M38M1 (SA-N-7, navalised SA-11) missile and 24 such missiles are carried in a below-decks magazine. The launchers elevate up to 70º but have a limited firing arc of 30º within the centreline. The launcher groups require a crew of 20 men and weigh about 50 tons. Target tracking data is provided by the MR-775 Fregat MAE planar array radar which can engage up to 12 targets at ranges of 32 km. Target illumination and semi-active homing is provided via six MR-90 Orekh (NATO: Front Dome) illuminators, four mounted forward and two aft.

The 9M38M1 SAM, designated as Kashmir by the Indian Navy, is armed with a 70 kg high-explosive warhead, has a maximum speed of Mach 3 (830 m/s) and can manoeuvre up to 20 g. The missile can handle target aircrafts traveling at 420 to 830 m/s and incoming missiles moving at 330 to 830 m/s. The reaction time is 16 to 19 seconds and the advertised kill percentage is 81 to 96% for a two-missile salvo. Ranges against aircraft are 3 km to 32 km with altitudes from 15 metres to 15 km. Ranges against incoming missiles are 3.5 km to 12 km with altitudes from 10 metres to 10 km. The missile probably has a secondary anti-ship capability.

INS Delhi has been fitted with the Barak SAM system and it appears that the pair of MR-123-02 (NATO: Bass Tilt) directors have been replaced by two EL/M-2221 directors, in addition to deckhouse modifications. It is unclear if the 30mm AK-630 Gatling guns aboard INS Delhi have been removed to place two revolver launchers for the Barak SAM system or if the Barak's VLS tubes are beside the mast.

One 100mm AK-100 single-barrelled, water-cooled gun, for use against ship and shore targets. The AK-100 can engage aerial and surface targets at a rate of fire of 30 to 50 rds/min and the turret can traverse through an arc of 220º. Fire control for the gun is provided by the T91E radar, a part of the MR-145 or MR-184 (NATO: Kite Screech) fire control radar system along with a turret mounted Kondensor optical sight. Each shell weighs 16 kg.

Four multi-barrelled 30mm AK-630 Gatling guns, two on either beam, to shoot down incoming anti-ship missiles, at 3000 rounds per minute to 2.5 km. Fire control is provided by two MR-123-02 (NATO: Bass Tilt) directors at the H/I/J-band frequency incorporating EO sensors (including laser rangefinder attachments) along with a manual backup sight for each pair of guns. Each gun can throw up a defensive wall of lead at 5500 to 6000 rounds per minute out to about 2.5 to 5 km. Unlike Western CIWS like Phalanx or Goalkeeper, this is not a closed loop system.

Five 533mm PTA 533 quintuple torpedo tube launchers are fitted amidships. The launchers are of modular construction and can fire different types of heavyweight torpedoes such as wire guided or wake homing types. The Delhi Class destroyers are armed with the SET-65E; anti-submarine, active & passive homing torpedo to 8.1n miles; 15 km at 40 knots with a 205 kg warhead and the Type 53-65; passive wake homing torpedo to 10.3n miles; 19 km at 45 knots with a 305 kg warhead.

Anti-submarine armament comprises of two 12 barrelled RBU-6000 AS rocket launchers mounted in front of the bridge. These weapons are controlled by the Purga ASW fire control system. The RBU-6000 fires RGB-60 depth charge rockets to engage submarines at depths of 500 metres at a maximum range of 6000 metres The system may carry up to 192 rockets, each with a 31 kg warhead. It is likely that the new RE-91 ASW rockets could be retrofitted to these vessels in due course. They use the same RBU launcher complex.

The vessels reportedly have the capability to fire the SS-N-15 or the SS-N-16 AShM. The former can be fired from 533mm torpedo tubes, while the latter needs a 650mm torpedo tube due to its large size. It is not known if these vessels are fitted with 650mm torpedo tubes.

Helicopter Capacity: Depending on operation requirements, two Sea King Mk.42B anti-ship/submarine helicopters can be embarked. The HAL Chetak or the HAL Dhruv, can also be used in combination with the Sea King Mk.42B. The 500 m2 flight deck with dual hangars has a 'Harpoon' type helicopter haul down system and two traversing tracks, each leading to a hangar compartment. This is very likely the French Samahé system. The ship is fitted with an integrated platform management system, possibly of French origin.

The Sea King Mk.42B is equipped with a surface search radar, dunking sonar and can carry two Sea Eagle AShMs or a combination of depth charges and AS-244 anti-submarine torpedoes. The helicopter can fly 400 km around the vessel and is equipped with a data link to download target data to the combat information centre, based on the indigenous Bharat Shikari (Hunter) combat data system, in the operations room. The combat data system, which is a derivative of the Italian IPN series of combat data systems, integrates Western, Russian and Indian systems, thus representing a remarkable technical achievement in system integration skills.

Countermeasures: The EW (Electronic Warfare) suite comprises of the Bharat Ajanta-II EW suite, along with the TQN-2 jamming system from the Italian company, Ellectronica. It is probable that the system is based on Israeli equipment, similar to the ones fitted on INS Viraat, and works in conjunction with the Russian PK-2 decoy launcher system. This employs two ZIF-121 launchers mounted on either side of the rear funnel stack atop the helo hanger and the Tertsiya fire control system. The PK-2 is employed in the confusion and distraction modes using chaff, IR and visual-optical decoy rounds. Confusion mode is used to confuse incoming missiles while distraction mode is used when enemy missiles are searching for and locking on the ship. Each launcher has 100 decoy rounds. Stern mounted noise generating torpedo decoys are also used.

Comments: The Delhi Class are the largest warships ever to be built in India and primarily act as command and control platforms for task groups and as screening escorts for the aircraft carriers. INS Mumbai, is more advanced than the other two vessels in the Delhi Class though minor modifications are already taking place on INS Delhi and INS Mysore. These vessels are well suited for power projection roles in the Indian Ocean Region and are fully fitted with flag facilities. The Delhi Class is also capable of operating in a NBC environment and Radar-Cross-Section reduction is presumed to be minimal, to the extent that some sharp angles have been flattened.

vs

can't find picture

[WACHENR0DER]

wrong forum buddy

[Hyperwarp]

ASW should go to the Delhi Class I guess.

INS Mumbai has that Thales ATAS, plus they carry 2 helicopters

[crobato]

No idea about the 052B's ASW, but Delhi's ASW looks pretty good.

Air defence goes to the 052B which has the new SA-N-12 over the older SA-N-7. AK-630 is not a true closed loop CIWS like the Type 730.

Surface engagement capability goes to the 052B, whose YJ-83 ranges between 160km to 255km without waiting for a new version. YJ-83 also has a bigger warhead over the Uran. Fire control radar of the 052B is the Mineral ME aka Bandstand, same radar used for the Moskit.

[Indian1973]

I think all the 3 delhis now have Barak. they use small rectangular blocks of VLS tubes.

The Sea King armed with 2xsea eagle has a AsuW capability the KA28 doesnt have.

052B scores better in RCS reduction surely.

Uranium is a no-show. at some point they will get 8xbrahmos I think.

[Himanshu]

ALL Delhi class destroyers have been upgraded with the Barak system.. replacing ONE AK-630 on both port/straboard side..

I donno why they are not upgrading the SAM system..

Hyper...
INS Mumbai AND INS Mysore have Thales ATAS...

[Indian1973]

any idea how many barak tubes ? I think the smallest barak
unit is 2x8 (?)

[Severodvinsk]

How come I always find this kind of discussion in the Army sections instead of Naval section? Scared of a real opinion of more specialised members?

[Hyperwarp]

Originally Posted by Himanshu

ALL Delhi class destroyers have been upgraded with the Barak system.. replacing ONE AK-630 on both port/straboard side..

I donno why they are not upgrading the SAM system..

Hyper...
INS Mumbai AND INS Mysore have Thales ATAS...

Both? Oh, sorry didn't know that.
BR still states only INS Mumbai - http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Delhi.html

Whats the differance between the One MR-775 Fregat MAE (Half Plate) of the Delhi and Top Plate of the 052B?.

Any Dinner Plates?

Delhi ASW

* Five 533mm PTA 533 quintuple torpedo tube launchers. Different types of heavyweight torpedoes such as wire guided or wake homing types.

*SET-65E; anti-submarine, active & passive homing torpedo to 8.1n miles; 15 km at 40 knots with a 205 kg warhead and the Type 53-65; passive wake homing torpedo to 10.3n miles; 19 km at 45 knots with a 305 kg warhead.

*Anti-submarine armament, 2 12 barrelled RBU-6000 AS rocket, controlled by the Purga ASW fire control system. (RE-91 ASW rockets)

*Reportedly have the capability to fire the SS-N-15 or the SS-N-16 AShM.

*2 Sea King Mk.42B anti-ship/submarine helicopters can be embarked.

*INS Delhi and INS Mysore - APSOH (Advanced Panoramic Sonar Hull) hull-mounted sonar, and Garden Reach Model 15-750 variable depth Sonar (HUMVAAD). INS Mumbai features more advanced sonar systems, namely a Thales ATAS (Advanced Towed Array Sonar) system and a Bharat HUMSA (Hull Mounted Sonar Array) system.

Thats an impressive Repertoire!

[desijatt]

Can some one move it to the naval forum?

[desijatt]

16 anti ship missiles! thats a lot. but i think we could have gone for a bit more fire power on the delhi.

[Severodvinsk]

It was supposed to have Moskit at first. Yet that was too expensive for India.
BTW, the SA-N-7 and SA-N-12 use the same targetting radars, nl the Orekh. It takes a little (sofware I think) adaptation, but I'm sure Delhi will soon use SA-N-12 too, they already have this missile in service on the Talwar frigates. Also, the Russian Sovremennies have changed to this newer missile, so it can't be hard to interchange them.
What version of Fregat is mounted on top of the Chinese ships?

[Wanshan]

Are there any pics of Delhi with Barak? Not sure the others of the class already got Barak. Pic wanted!!!!

[desijatt]

I saw one years ago but i can't find it.

[Himanshu]

desijatt.. they were upgraded only last year man.. I mean the work started around march-april 03..

[Himanshu]

Originally Posted by Wanshan

Are there any pics of Delhi with Barak? Not sure the others of the class already got Barak. Pic wanted!!!!

Wanshan.. I don't have any pics on hand right now.. but we saw a few pics of it on BR about a year back..

Can tell you what has gone out.. taking a pic from BR.. Navy website..

In the uploaded image I have marked out the AK-630 that has been replaced.. there is a lot of confusion as to how many Barak's .. on board tongue slip says 32.. But there us a BIG ?? as to if it is really possible to have 16 each side.. cosidering the space etc..

[koxinga]

It is a close one to call, but I will give the Delhi a slight edge. A basic analysis.

Air defence:
Delhi uses a Fregat-MAE system (Half Plate) while the 052B uses a Top Plate. Main difference is the Top Plate uses a back to back two piece planar array antenna while the version of the MAE used by the Delhi appear to be the single array version (from the photos). There are basically several version of the MAE with range from 150 - 300 km. In terms of survillence from a one on one comparision, probably the 052 has the edge with the Top Plate.

At the same time, that edge is also offset by the fact that it is complemented by the India version of the LW08 which should be better than the Knife Rest on the 052B. At the same time, the Delhi packs 6 sets of Orekh FCR compared to the 052B's 4 sets. This would mean that the Delhi could loft and control more 9M38M1 than the 052B. (if I remember correctly, there is no time sharing for the Orekh system; doesnt matter, Delhi has more of them). There is a slight comparative advantage with the newer 9M38M2 missile (better range, reduced min range prob faster reaction) but it is likely that IN could change to the 9M38M2 in due time and having more missiles in the air is also better.

Having a combination of Barak and AK-630 CIWS would also mean better point-defence compare to a single Type 730 on each side of the 052B.

Anti Surface:
Crobato has pointed out, the Band Stand/Light Bulb data link/YJ-83 is a better system to the Uran for pure range comparisions.
For the future, both IN and PLAN are inducting their own supersonic ASHMs so it will be a draw. (Brahmos/YJ-91?)

Anti Sub:
Delhi with the ATAS is better, making it a more balance platform. Otherwise, both hull mounted and airborne ASW are comparable on both ships.

I agreed, the 052B is a much prettier ship than the Delhi with its smooth lines (and I can't stand the dark gray scheme of the Delhi) but the ship I would prefer to be on during a shooting match is the Delhi.

Of course, it is a moot point to compare this two ship with the 052C weighing in and rather unconfirmed information on the P15A.

[Himanshu]

koxinga.. The delhi class destroyers have been painted in Light Gray.. infact all the IN ships are getting the new paint job..

[Hyperwarp]

Originally Posted by koxinga

Anti Sub:
Delhi with the ATAS is better, making it a more balance platform. Otherwise, both hull mounted and airborne ASW are comparable on both ships.

But, koxi, the Delhi carries 2 helis.

And what are the Torpedoes carried by the 052B? Is it the same "two triple 324mm torpedo launchers (Yu-7, range 10km @ 40kt)" as 051B? http://stormpages.com/jetfight/luhai_luhu_luda.htm

On the otherhand the Delhi carries "Five 533mm PTA 533 quintuple torpedo tube launchers are fitted amidships". (SET-65E; anti-submarine, active & passive homing torpedo to 8.1n miles; 15 km at 40 knots with a 205 kg warhead and the Type 53-65; passive wake homing torpedo to 10.3n miles; 19 km at 45 knots with a 305 kg warhead), and speculated to fire the SS-N-15 or the SS-N-16 AShM as well. http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NAVY/Delhi.html


PS:

ppl, how many SSMs can each of the ships guide? In the "Russian Attack Capabilities" Thread Jonesy stated that the "Light-Blub" can guide only 1 moskit. What about the YJ-83 and Urans of these 2 ships?

[Wanshan]

The only pic of the update that I saw was a quay-side close up shot from KANWA of the Elta STIR that replaced the Bass Tilt on Delhi. AFAIK it got 2x6 Barak.

[Himanshu]

2x6 is the best possible.. and having seen the structure up-close.. I think that it's possible to have 6 each side..

Wanshan .. if you are saying that 2x6 is one side then I have my doubts..

[koxinga]

I overlooked the torpedoes. Does anyone know exactly what are in those 5 tubes?
I would still rate them as comparable unless the Delhi is proven to have SS-n-15/16.
The 052B operates 2 x triple B515s (total 6 torpedoes) on port and starboard. The Delhi on the other hand, has a single set of 5 x 533 tubes fitted amidships. To nickpick abit, you could prob fire off the B515s faster in both directions simulatously whereas the 533s would have to be slewed to one direction at the time. In ASW ops, reaction time counts. The difference in warhead size is probably minimal when u are trying to sink a sub.

(Above: 5 x 533s found behind first funnel; U can see the issue of slewing the damm thing around, its huge!) Factor in ASW choppers and the odds shift yet again.

Yu-7 is the standard ASW torp used by PLAN. They do not seem to be interested in large calibre ASW torpedoes.

As for the new missiles, I am not sure. I do not know enough about the exact details to compare them. I am assuming a basic firing solution. Russian ASHMs are known to have data exchange capability between missiles in flight. I am not sure how this technology has flowed to either the Indians or Chinese. If so, in theory, a single mid course update from the Delhi or the 052B could be propogated between a flight of in-bound missiles.

[Severodvinsk]

India doesn't have SS-N-15 or SS-N-16, AFAIK, the weapon was never sold to foreign customers. Even then, you need to have the capability to find your target that far out.
I suppose a larger calibre torpedo gives a slight range advantage, the warhead doesn't really matter that much. Of course when you miss, a near explosion of heavy torpedo will logically give a larger blast-radius, this might be the difference between complete miss and near-hit.
Two helicopters makes it a much better ASW platform than Type52B. Also,Koxi, I think they changed the Ak-630s for Barak instead of adding the system to it.
What are the official specs of type 52B? Length, beam, displacement. These two heavy helicopters of Delhi and her size, make me think she's quite a lot bigger than 52B...

[koxinga]

I guess it is a matter of preference. You can put more torpedoes on board with a 324mm and still get the job done with a much smaller footprint that the 5x533 arrangement (reminds me of the IJN destroyer models I did went I was young). That same deck space could be freed up for additional Barak modules for example.

As for the Barak, not all the AK630 was removed. It is now a mix of both.

Specs for the 052 can be found with the usual suspects. The Delhi appears to be the larger one.

[Severodvinsk]

Hmm, I don't think torpedoes oboard a ship are effective anymore, forgot to mention that before. With 15km range, it is no match for the torpedoes used by submarines, with their own range of up to 30-50km. The helicopter still stays the best weapon. Turning the tubes? Don't know about that, more and more navies seem not to care about that, so I don't think it matters that much, for example Duke, Neustrshimy and Zeven Provincien have forward directed fixed torpedo tubes, Wandelaar, Kirov, Slava, all have perpendicular to the longitudinal axis mounted fixed tubes...
Probably it has to do with the range too, there's only a VERY small chance that you will get 15km close to a submarine... For Kirov, it can use SS-N-15 and SS-N-16 from its tubes, hence by the range of those weapons, they have some time to turn the ship.

[JonS]

Delhi is pretty old supposed to have been built by early 90s but due construction delays they werent completed till late 90s. Anyway u cant really both of these vessel since a decade seprates them and u can perhaps compare the delhi with chinese sovremenny since both of them are pretty similar and serve as command vessels of the respective navies. Only Talwar is perhaps comparable to 052B.

As for the Barak, not all the AK630 was removed. It is now a mix of both.

2 ak-630 have been replaced by 2 8 cell barak cells. IAI reported there were some problems integrating barak with delhi's command system back in late 2003 dont know if they fixed it by know.
edit: found the image with ganga sporting barak courtesy of br i wonder if delhi has been fitted with elta star rader?

AK-630 is not a true closed loop CIWS like the Type 730.

Its has nothing to do with performance really russians experiemented with closed loop design when they needed replacement for ak-230 but found ak-630 to be just as good if not better because it costed less and was lot lighter. Millenium is also nother good example of non closed loop ciws i doubt type-730 is anywere to close to it in performance.

At the same time, that edge is also offset by the fact that it is complemented by the India version of the LW08 which should be better than the Knife Rest on the 052B. At the same time, the Delhi packs 6 sets of Orekh FCR compared to the 052B's 4 sets. This would mean that the Delhi could loft and control more 9M38M1 than the 052B. (if I remember correctly, there is no time sharing for the Orekh system; doesnt matter, Delhi has more of them).

one difference is the 2 pair of 52B illuminators are located rather lo just like middle pair of illuminators in delhi which could affect its ability to engage sea skimming targets.

Otherwise, both hull mounted and airborne ASW are comparable on both ships.

not really RBU-6000 is far superior to whatever RBU-1200? found on 052b. However only Mumbai has atas the rest have VDS.

[dionis]

What about Kashtan?

[Severodvinsk]

Kashtan is on none of the mentioned ships here, only on Talwar and lots of Russian vessels.

[crobato]

Its has nothing to do with performance really russians experiemented with closed loop design when they needed replacement for ak-230 but found ak-630 to be just as good if not better because it costed less and was lot lighter. Millenium is also nother good example of non closed loop ciws i doubt type-730 is anywere to close to it in performance.

Isn't the Kashtan a closed loop system? Didn't it replace the AK-630?

I think the Type 730 performs quite well, and the Chinese are more than satisfied with it that there is even a land based truck hauled variant. It has both radar and optoelectric systems, so you got a lot more backup when you're jammed. Just remember the Chinese had the option of using the AK-630, as they have them in their Sovremannies, but chose not to.

[Wanshan]

Originally Posted by Himanshu

2x6 is the best possible.. and having seen the structure up-close.. I think that it's possible to have 6 each side..

Wanshan .. if you are saying that 2x6 is one side then I have my doubts..

One AK630 of two present on each side was removed. The forward AK630 of each pair was removed, the rearward one retained. AFAIK the forward AK 630's were replaced by a total of 12 VL Barak i.e. 6 on each side. Also, both BASS TILT radars used to control the originally two pairs of AK630 were removed and replaced by an ELTA STIR. So, 2 radar trackers and 2x6 Barak were installed.


... If I were the Indian navy, I'ld used the AK630s removed from Delhi cass ships to replace AK230s in the three newest Rajput class, and install them together with Barak, so the modernized Rajpus would have the same close in weapons fit as the Delhi's. Also replace their SS-N-2 Styx with Brahmos. Alternatively, the AK630s could replace AK230s on Godavari class.