Canada selects the Sikorsky H-92

[Sauron]

The Canadian government has anounced the purchace of 28 Sikorsky H-92 Superhawks to replace the navy's 30 or so Sea Kings which are approximately 40 years old. Deliveries will start in 2008.

Sauron

[Charlie Echo]

But Canada already operates Merlins / Cormorants... Doesn't it look strange from a communality point of view?

Any links?

[SteveO]

Read about the Canadian Sea King replacement saga at http://www.sfu.ca/casr/ft-mhp1.htm

[fightingirish]

From Sikorsky homepage :

The Maritime Helicopter Team Selected to Replace Sea Kings

Jul. 23, 2004
- Ottawa -- The Government of Canada today announced the selection of the Sikorsky Aircraft-led Maritime Helicopter Team to replace Sea King helicopters currently in service with the Canadian Forces.

The selection was made as part of Canada's $3-billion Maritime Helicopter Project (MHP) for the acquisition of 28 aircraft. The Maritime Helicopter Team will furnish the Sikorsky H-92 SUPERHAWK medium-lift helicopter and support services over the next 20 years. The first helicopter will be delivered in 2008.

Canada's new H-92s will be multi-mission capable and will perform anti-submarine patrols, surveillance and ship-borne duties, and a wide range of utility roles such as Search and Rescue support, cargo and personnel transport, and disaster relief support.

"Sikorsky has been a part of Canada's history for more than 50 years, and we are proud to continue this legacy," said Sikorsky President Steve Finger. "The MHP specifications are rightfully among the most demanding in the world. There is no better aircraft to fulfill these missions than the H-92."

Sikorsky Aircraft has reiterated its long-term commitment to Canada by joining with two leading Canadian companies to form The Maritime Helicopter Team. General Dynamics Canada, based in Ottawa, Ontario, is responsible for the H-92 systems integration and will furnish a 100 percent Canadian-developed and built Mission Data Management System. L-3 MAS Canada, based in Mirabel, Quebec, brings proven performance in long-term in-service support for the Canadian Forces.

"General Dynamics Canada has been serving our Armed Forces since 1948, and we have consistently proven our capability to successfully complete large, technically complex projects," said GD Canada's President John Watts. "Our team of qualified and dedicated workers are eager to provide the H-92 with a world-class Integrated Mission System. We will draw on the extensive systems integration experience we have gained over the years to ensure the success of the MHP programme."

Sylvain Bédard, President of L-3 Communications MAS Canada added: "We are pleased with the selection of the MHT which will provide the Canadian Forces with the next generation maritime helicopter. Our Sikorsky-led team recognizes the advantages of the safety and reliability inherent in the H-92 design and capitalizes on the strength of the Canadian industry partners--GD Canada providing the mission suite and L-3 MAS with the leading role for the provision of in-service support.

"This selection continues the long-standing L-3 MAS tradition as the leading provider of quality, responsive and innovative solutions in support of the Canadian Air Force operational requirements."

The Sikorsky H-92 Maritime Helicopter Team was selected over the AgustaWestland team and its EH-101 Cormorant offering. A Lockheed Martin/NH Industries consortium NH-90 proposal was eliminated earlier this year.

The H-92 flies faster, farther, is safer, carries more and costs less to operate than its MHP competitor. It builds on the heritage of five million flight hours achieved through the Sea Stallion, SEAHAWK and BLACK HAWK aircraft, and the Sikorsky Sea King that has served the Canadian Forces for more than four decades.

Breaking new ground for medium-weight helicopters, the H-92 provides unprecedented levels of safety and reliability. It is the only rotorcraft in the world certified to the latest FAA, EASA and JAA safety regulations and is designed to the latest specifications for flaw tolerance, bird strike capability and turbine burst protection.

I thought, a EH-101 flies farther and carries more !!!

fightingirish

[Arthur]

The EH-101 originally won the Canadian competition, but the order was cancelled. I seriously think re-ordering the Merlin would have been too much of an embarrasment in some Canadian political and military circles.

As for the Fat Hawk being faster, longer ranged and capable to carry more than the Merlin: yeah, right.

[matt]

Didnt they do a flight or something with the 101 and found that its safty margin is a lot better then anything else ? They are testing it for presidentian operations or something arent they?

[fightingirish]

From the thread H-92 Superhawk :

Originally Posted by US Agent

Date:20th June 2003 18:46

[...]
it's currently competing for the USMC VXX Presidential Airlift replacement program...it's only competitor is the US-101 (EH-101)...and this appears to be the best opportunity for its first military sale. The winner will have a leg-up in also securing the USAF SAR helicopter replacement for over 100 aircraft.

fightingirish

[Sauron]

Politics did play a role starting in the late 80's when a contract was let to replace all the SAR and Navy Sea Kings and Labs with the HE-101 which as Arthur said was cancelled by our Liberal government when it came to power. It cost the taxpayers $500 million so that the Liberals could play the hero.

Later, they did purchase 15 Merlins for SAR as was said. There have been a number of reliability/quality issues with it as we know.

It would appear that the deal for the H-92 is a good one so the government gets to save a little face.

As to which is better, the Merlin or the Superhawk? Time will tell but there is no reason to believe the H-92 will not give good service. As to Canada being a launch customer? Well, someone has to be first. The Merlin also had a first customer. If Sikorsky got the order because of the economic benefits to Canada then that's fine with me.

Sauron


Sauron

[Churomaiz]

Canada made a grave mistake. It would of been logistically smoother to operate the Eh-101 in that role since the Candaian navy already has them. I wonder what prompted the Canucks to buy those choppers....price?

[Sauron]

The right size for the ships, the right price, the right industrial needs, not to mention the fact that the Merlin has quality issues. It would hardly be the first time we operated more than one large type.

Sauron

[SteveO]

What are the quality issues with the EH-101, anything to do with the recent grounding?

[John Boyle]

I don't have the Merlin/S-92 figures in front of me but is seems logical that if the Merlin is larger, has more engines and has a longer range, they'd use that for long range rescues, but since most rescues are short range, why not my a smaller helicopter (with the resulting cost savings in operations/maintenance/purchase) for those missions? With the money you save, you can afford to buy more of the smaller ships.
In other words, don't buy a larger helicopter than you need for the job!
After all, you wouldn't expect BA to fly a 777 between London and Scotland would you?

[Rafale]

Canada seems to have been forced to buy H-92:

"The Canadian federal government concealed the fact last week that it was forced to buy Sikorsky helicopters to replace its fleet of Sea Kings after the only other competitor in the $5-billion race had been previously disqualified on technical grounds, sources say."

Source

[Sauron]

Steve.

As I understand it they have had fuel line leaks, tail roter cracks, cracking windscreens and console brackets, airframe cracks and hoist issues. No doubt most of these issues will be solved but the CAF has expressed some disapointment.

Regards

Sauron

[SteveO]

Sauron

I can understand their disappointment if this is true.
Anyone heard of these defects effecting British, Italian and Japanese EH-101's?

[Arthur]

Rafale, i think the article you linked to is actually worth posting entirely. Especially since it suggests this isn't the end of the saga yet.

We had joy, we had fun
We had Sea Kings in the sun
But the engines are on fire
And the Sea Kings must retire

Ottawa forced to buy Sikorsky, sources say
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servl...tory/National/

By DANIEL LEBLANC
From Monday's Globe and Mail

Ottawa — The federal government concealed the fact last week that it was forced to buy Sikorsky helicopters to replace its fleet of Sea Kings after the only other competitor in the $5-billion race had been previously disqualified on technical grounds, sources say.

Instead of saying that the contract had been awarded to the only company that was still standing, government officials made it seem as if the contract had been a two-way race to the end.

The revelation that Team Cormorant was quietly thrown out of the competition earlier this year is the latest twist in the ongoing saga that is now expected to be played out before the courts.

A government official said information about Team Cormorant's disqualification was not made public last week because the government thinks it will be a pivotal point if Team Cormorant decides to launch a lawsuit over the outcome.

Defence Minister Bill Graham, in announcing the decision to buy 28 helicopters from U.S.-based Sikorsky, said on Friday that it "represents the right helicopter for the Canadian Forces at the best price for Canadians."
Even at a thorough technical briefing that day, senior bureaucrats did not tell journalists that the contract was awarded to the only bidder still in the running.

"It gave the impression that there were two companies, and that we went for the cheapest," the government source said yesterday.

There is growing bitterness between Team Cormorant and the government over the process. A senior government official yesterday dismissed a report that there was only a 1-per-cent price difference (about $50-million) between the winning bid of Sikorsky and the disqualified bid of Team Cormorant.

The government is arguing that the difference was more in the range of 15 per cent, meaning that Team Cormorant's bid was about $750-million higher.

The fact that Team Cormorant was disqualified in recent months is surprising because the federal government adopted a complicated process two years ago to prevent such an outcome. In 2002, the government created a "prequalification" phase under which the competing helicopters would have to meet specific technical requirements before entering the final leg of the competition, which would be settled solely on the issue of price.

Team Cormorant and Sikorsky met the requirements of the prequalification process, but Team Cormorant was, nonetheless, disqualified from the competition later. The reason for Team Cormorant's disqualification is unclear, as government and industry officials remain coy about recent events.

It is a stunning twist for a company that won the first competition to replace the Sea Kings in the early 1990s under the Progressive Conservative government of Brian Mulroney. That contract was cancelled by then-prime-minister Jean Chrétien in 1993, but Team Cormorant later won a smaller competition to produce search-and-rescue helicopters for the Canadian Forces.

"It's an incredible outcome after Cormorant won in 1992, won in 1998, prequalified in 2003, to be told that their bid is not acceptable in 2004," an industry source said.

The government now expects that its decision to exclude Team Cormorant from the competition will be at the centre of a lawsuit from AgustaWestland, the Anglo-Italian consortium that builds the aircraft.

Team Cormorant has long alleged that the process to replace the Sea Kings was rigged in favour of other competitors, and has vowed to take the matter before the courts if it lost the contract.

Team Cormorant has three legal options: the Canadian International Trade Tribunal, the Federal Court and the Ontario Superior Court.

The CITT, an administrative tribunal, provides the quickest way ahead for Team Cormorant, which could challenge its disqualification as well as Sikorsky's qualification. If Team Cormorant wins its case, the CITT could order the retendering of the contract or call on the government to offer financial compensation to Team Cormorant.

Second, the Federal Court could provide a judicial review of the process, and it could eventually send the contract back to the government for retendering.

Finally, Team Cormorant could argue before the Ontario Superior Court that Sikorsky did not meet the government's requirements and did not deserve the contract. If Team Cormorant was successful, the Ontario Superior Court could order the government to offer financial compensation to Team Cormorant.

In addition, the Auditor-General is expected to review the contract and determine whether the federal government adopted the best strategy to replace the Sea Kings.

[Sauron]

Looks like the same article posted three times to me.

Sauron

[Wolverine]

yep loads of political play came into the deal no doubt. the earlier ordered for EH101 was cancelled when the new libral government took charge.
even though the canadian military preferred it and still prefferes it over the Sikorsky.

[Arthur]

Originally Posted by Sauron

Looks like the same article posted three times to me.

Sauron

One and one is two, not three

[SteveO]

I think I read somewhere that the EH-101 team has had this kind of bidding problem in Australia too.
What's going on?
Is this politics or are there real technical problems with EH-101?
EH-101 pilots seem happy, read this-
http://www.agustawestland.com/commun...ws=123&yy=2004