PAK FA news

[Vympel]

Electronic Mock-up of Fifth Generation Airplane Created in Russia

An electronic mock-up of the fifth generation airplane has been created in Russia, the air force commander-in-chief, General-Colonel Vladimir Mikhaylov, reported to Interfax-AVN on Thursday.

“Right now active work on the fifth generation airplane is on-going. It is very painstaking. An electronic Mock-up of the fifth generation airplane already has been created. Right now we are studying it, analyzing it. The airplane is turning out very well,” he said after a meeting of the air force military council on the road, which took place at the base of the 929th state flight test center in Akhtubinsk.

V. Mikhaylov declared that, “the delivery to the troops of reliable and effective aviation equipment is impossible without the clear-cut organization and assurance of tests.” “Deficiencies which are permitted with the creation of aviation equipment and not uncovered in the process of tests are sources of negative factors which have a universal nature for an aviation system," he said.

"The goal of the meeting on-the-road of the air force military council, the CinC noted, is the exposure at the place of the problems and the adoption of pressing measures so that in the very near future we are able to test new aircraft equipment actively for a more accelerated advancement of it into the air force.”

“The rash cut-back of the flight test center has led to the fact that those buildups which we had and have have begun to be tested with a time delay. But today we have fixed all this. Interesting and prospective things await us ahead in the creation and assimilation of new aviation equipment," V. Mikhaylov said.

Source: 30.10.03, Interfax-AVN

[WACHENR0DER]

an electronic mock up? sounds like they made the CG of the aircraft.

[Vympel]

Originally posted by WACHENR0DER
an electronic mock up? sounds like they made the CG of the aircraft.

Yup. Don't you just love clunky Russian translated terms for things?

[matt]

LOL @ CG i think its a bit more complex then a doodle on 3Ds


I like it, Rapid prototyping and concurrent engineering finally being used widely, might be seeing the PAKFA fly by the end of this decade after all.

[lordofjedi]

I wonder where India's contribution is (if at all there is any) to the PAK-FA. It will be very good if they are deeply involved from the concept and design stage itself.

[xanadu]

Anything more on this aircraft. The las that was heard here was the Indian prime quoting that Russia and India had already started work on it. Any news coming out of Russia on the state of the project.

[Indian1973]

so is this going to the iaf's MCA - replacement for Mig23/27/M2k/Jag in 2015-20

or india is planning MCA as a separate project?

[gumbo]

MCA has no relation to the PAK-FA.

[crobato]

It is a computer based simulation of the aircraft.

[Srbin]

I think India will just buy the PAK-FA later on like they did with the SU-27 and Mig-29.

[xanadu]

Just a couple of days back read in a newspaper that an outgoing Russian Diplomat had commented that Russia and India were thinking of inviting China to co-develop the Fifth Generation Aircraft. This if true will certainly set the cat amongst the pigeons.
But how far is it true keeping in mind that the Russians wouldnt wan to give the Chinese top of the line techology and India still having reservations about China. For all the talk of an advance in Chinese technology the fact still is that China has a long way to go to catch up with the years of Experience the Russians have.

[Karna]

Originally Posted by Srbin

I think India will just buy the PAK-FA later on like they did with the SU-27 and Mig-29.

That era has gone. Now its codevelopment all the way.

[Vympel]

AKhK Sukhoy to Present Fifth Generation Fighter Draft to Russian Federation Defense Ministry in 2004

An international aerospace exhibition is taking place from 18 through 24 July at the Farnborough airfield in Great Britain. This exhibition is held every 2 years and is the largest exposition of a similar sort not only in Great Britain, but in the whole world.

The first-rate Russian aviation holding company, the Sukhoy Company, will be one of the Russian participants. On the eve of its opening, the Sukhoy general director, Mikhail Pogosyan, told journalists what the company will come with to Farnborough and what primary tasks stand before the holding company right now.

This year Sukhoy will offer spectators civil aviation equipment- a mock-up of the cabin for the family of Russian Regional Jet airplanes will be demonstrated for the first time at Farnborough. The family will consist of six versions of airplanes, they all will respond to modern worldwide standards which will allow delivery of them not only on the internal market, but also for export. The prospective sales volume of the RRJ family of airplanes right now is estimate at more than 12 billion dollars. The total forecast demand will be nearly 800 aircraft over 20 years, and the cost will be 10 - 15 percent lower than foreign similar types.

At the same time, one of Sukhoy's main tasks is the further strengthening of positions in the military aviation equipment market, in particular, owing to the creation of new products and upgrade of already-existing airplanes and which have made a good showing of themselves. The company is developing the modern Su-32 fighter-bomber, which will be called upon to destroy ground and aerial targets, in accordance with a Russian Ministry of Defense order. This airplane also is supposed to perform aerial reconnaissance and patrol the coasts in any weather conditions. At the present moment, a pre-production batch of eight aircraft has been built and state flight tests have begun, which will end in 2005.

Work also is underway on the upgrade of aircraft equipment which in the inventory of our army. Thus, a program is being executed on behalf of the defense ministry for the creation of an upgraded Su-24M2 tactical bomber. It is being done for raising the precision performance of the navigational complex and modes of use of the airborne weapons systems. The heart of the avionics will be replaced in full on the Su-24M2 airplanes, including the computer system, the navigational system, and the cockpit crew information display system. The upgrade program for the Su-27 series of airplanes, the best airplanes in their class, is aimed at the creation of an airplane with new aerodynamics, avionics and control system characteristics.

Work on new generation airplanes also is underway actively. AKhK Sukhoy intends as early as this year to present the concept design of the fifth generation fighter to Russia's defense ministry. "Development of the fifth generation aircraft complex is going according to the timetable," Mikhail Pogosyan noted. In his opinion, now "it is necessary to transition from general discussion to cooperation with possible manufacturers of components for the new aerial complex." The fifth generation fighter is a multirole aircraft for the resolution of missions of a tactical nature, it can effectively destroy aerial, ground and surface small-size moving targets in any weather conditions of day and night, and also in conditions of active enemy countermeasures with the use of precision weapons. The foreign spectators will be able to see the results of the aircraft designers' work with the own eyes. In August of this year, the whole lineup of domestic airplane construction will be demonstrated within the framework of the MAKS-2004 aviation show in the Moscow suburb of Zhukovskiy, and the SU-30MK will take part in demonstration flights.

As Mikhail Pogosyan thinks, the condition of the Russian military aviation industry is much more positive on the whole that 10 years ago, in the recession period. This is connected with several factors, in particular, with the direction of attention to arms export which has brought results. Another positive trend is the steady growth of orders within the framework of the state arms program on the part of the Ministry of Defense. Thanks to this, the quantity of orders has increased for the upgrade of aircraft equipment, and in the near future, after specification of the arms program, this equipment will be purchased for the needs of the Russian armed forces.

Source: 14.07.04, Agenstvo Biznes Novosti

[Indian1973]

Vympel what is the current known status of new versions of the R-73 and ramjet R-77 ?
the R-73 is kinda long in tooth compared to the new gen designs flooding the market and needs a new model and ramjet R-77 is obviously necessary to match the Meteor and improve on the original R-77 shortcomings.

[Vympel]

Originally Posted by Indian1973

Vympel what is the current known status of new versions of the R-73 and ramjet R-77 ?
the R-73 is kinda long in tooth compared to the new gen designs flooding the market and needs a new model and ramjet R-77 is obviously necessary to match the Meteor and improve on the original R-77 shortcomings.

Shouldn't this be in the missile forum ?

The latest R-73M2 (which is in service since 1996) isn't long in the tooth, capability wise; though it could use an imaging infrared seeker, it seems quite deadly. Anyway, Jane's ALW refers to an improved R-73 variant, with speculation as to its designation (including R-74, which has been used as the rear-fire version designation by some) but its features are "unclear"- possibilities include:

- an improved R-73 with gimbal-mounted motor nozzle assembly, which is in development by Vympel (improving maneuverability and range). More expensive.
- A cheaper solution possibly known as R-74 with "improved seeker" and "improved TVC" (but with vanes as on the R-73 rather than the above gimbal-mount)
- the aforementioned rear-fire version

* presumably the more expensive one would also have the improved seeker, I assume.

Vympel's K-30 is of course in the future too. As to RVV-AE-PD aka R-77M-PD, no new news. . These new missiles will probably coincide roughly with the appearance of the PAK FA in solid form.

[Srbin]

Has sukhoi or anyone else released a drawing of the potential PAK-FA? I mean we don't know how this thing will look like at all
1)All we know it will be a twin engined heavy fighter to replace Mig-29 and Su-27
2)We don't know what kind of configuration will it be, where it's intakes are going to be placed, what type of wing it will have or anything.

[GDL]

Originally Posted by Srbin

Has sukhoi or anyone else released a drawing of the potential PAK-FA? I mean we don't know how this thing will look like at all
1)All we know it will be a twin engined heavy fighter to replace Mig-29 and Su-27
2)We don't know what kind of configuration will it be, where it's intakes are going to be placed, what type of wing it will have or anything.

I suspect we are going to know pretty soon Srbin.

In August of this year, the whole lineup of domestic airplane construction will be demonstrated within the framework of the MAKS-2004 aviation show in the Moscow suburb of Zhukovskiy

Looks like it might be next month when we see a concept model of it. Let's hope so! Can't wait.

[Vympel]

Today's News

Concept Design for Fifth Generation Fighter to Be Given to Customer at End of this Year

The fifth generation fighter concept design, as is provided for by the timetable, will be given to the customer, Russia's defense ministry, at the end of this year, the general director of the Sukhoy company, Mikhail Pogosyan, announced at a press conference at the Farnborough-2004 salon.

According to him, further periods for work on the program will be determined by the customer after examination of the results of the concept stage of the design. Moreover, further periods for realization of the program two a great degree will depend on how preparation of the state arms program for the period 2006?2015 goes, which will specify the priorities of the state defense order for the coming 10 years, including the fifth generation fighter.

Touching on the realization of the Sukhoy company's military programs as a whole, M. Pogosyan noted the program for upgrade of Su-30 airplanes "which has not been completed in its development, but it is growing steadily." A second trend, which is supposed to provide maintenance of Sukhoy's position in the marketplace in the period from 2006 and until the appearance of the fifth generation airplane is the Su-35 program. This program is supposed to integrate to a significant degree those technologies which are being perfected in the process of work on the fifth generation fighter.

One more trend, according to M. Pogosyan, is work on guaranteeing the requirements of the Russian Federation defense ministry. This, firstly, is the upgrade of operational Su-27, Su-24 and Su-25 airplanes in the Russian air force inventory. The first deliveries of upgraded aircraft for the Russian Federation air force began last year. The second priority program being realized in the interests of the ministry of defense is the Su-32 program. This is a strike complex which is intended for the resolution of a whole spectrum of missions connected with the destruction of ground and surface targets and also aerial combat.

As M. Pogosyan noted, the Sukhoy company is devoting serious attention also to the development of unmanned aerial vehicles.

"Such a broad range of directions of operations on the military theme are connected with the company's diversification strategy which is directed to a maximum degree at meeting market demands and reacting flexibly to those changes that occur in the worldwide marketplace for military aviation equipment," M. Pogosyan concluded.

Source: 22.07.04, ARMS-TASS

[Vympel]

Generations not Changing

The appearance of the new combat airplane isn't expected until 2012

Yesterday, the head of the Sukhoy Aviation Holding Company, Mikhail Pogosyan, and the air force commander-in-chief, General of the Army Vladimir Mikhaylov, almost simultaneously acknowledged that there will not be a revolution is military aircraft construction in the near future. Russian aces will receive the long-awaited fifth generation combat airplane not earlier than 2012. Only the aircraft's concept design will be presented to the customer- the Russian Federation defense ministry- at the end of this year. The Su-35 airplane will fill the eight-year time interval, which, according to Mikhail Pogosyan's assurance, will be "an intermediate airplane between the utmost as of today in the family of Sukhoy Su-30 and the fifth generation airplane."

Nevertheless, it will be difficult to call the Su-35 brand-new: the fighter, per se, will be a hodgepodge of all the best which has been produced by the Sukhoy OKB aircraft designers. In particular, they will take the airframe from the Su-27, and the different experiences of the Su-24M and Su-30 airplanes will be used. As regards the airframe, as Mikhail Pogosyan explained, the use of the airframe from the Su-27 "will permit essentially shortening the time for the development of a new aircraft, since tests of the airframe will not have to be performed. The new aircraft is supposed to appear as early as 2006. OKB adviser, Marshal of Aviation Evgeniy Shaposhnikov, also supported Sukhoy's position on the upgrade while answering a Russkiy Kur'er question. "We have achieved such a technological level that it isn't suitable to expect a revolution a revolution in aircraft construction. The Su-30 has even outpaced the fifth generation in aerodynamic qualities," the ex aide to Russia's president for space and aviation assured. "But it is worth putting work on the avionics over combat characteristics. The new generation airplane is not a 30-50 percent improvement of qualitative performance, but by 2- 3 times. But this can be achieved today only by evolutionary, and not by a revolutionary means." "We will be able to preserve our leading positions in the aviation marketplace in the 2006 - 2012 interval with the Su-35 airplane and also owing to the upgrade of the Su-30," Mikhail Pogosyan added.

Nevertheless, these are the plans. For the time being the air force needs to be involved with more mundane affairs. In particular, to analyze the results of the two recent catastrophes: of the Mi-8 helicopter and of the Tu-22M bomber. As air force CinC, General of the Army Vladimir Mikhaylov, explained to us, the human factor led to both tragedies. "The flight controllers are to blame for the loss of the helicopter. On that day the temperature was zero at an altitude of 3,000 meters. It was madness to climb the airplane ((sic)) even higher. However, the flight controller gave the crew the order to take an altitude of 3,300 meters. In the Tu-22M crew tragedy, the main reason is technical, a generator malfunctioned. But there is not one generator on the airplane, but four. The crew, in view of little flying practice, was unable to enable the three other generators correctly. Moreover, the generator had been inoperative for 43 minutes before the catastrophe, however, the airmen did not report about this malfunction," Vladimir Mikhaylov said.

As regards the fifth generation airplane, the air force CinC confirmed to Russkiy Kur'er the words of the Sukhoy manager. "We expect the new airplane by 2012," the general reported. "But it is supposed to be a really new airplane, and not an upgrade of an old aircraft."

Source: 29.07.04, Russkiy Kur'er

"Su-35" is obviously a reference to the new Su-37 being built.

[aerospacetech]

The latest Sukhoi is the Su-35BM with AL-41F1 engines and advanced avionics including either Phazotron's Sokol or NIIP's new Irbis radars.

Irbis is a rotating passive phased array, a newer generation than Bars but building on work done on that radar.

Irbis is expected to be ready around 2006/7 so I guess this is the timeframe for the Su-35BM. The AL-41F1 program should be well advanced by then as well.

[Srbin]

Su-35BM? Any info on it?

[aerospacetech]

Well I think "its got the AL-41F1 engine and improved avionics" pretty much qualifies as information?

There was no mention of airframe changes. The "AL-41F1" is a bit of cheat- its a staged development of the AL-31 incorporating some AL-41F technology. Makes a lot more sense than trying to shoehorn in the real AL-41F.

[Vympel]

Originally Posted by aerospacetech

The latest Sukhoi is the Su-35BM with AL-41F1 engines and advanced avionics including either Phazotron's Sokol or NIIP's new Irbis radars.

Irbis is a rotating passive phased array, a newer generation than Bars but building on work done on that radar.

Irbis is expected to be ready around 2006/7 so I guess this is the timeframe for the Su-35BM. The AL-41F1 program should be well advanced by then as well.

Su-35BM eh? Where'd you get this new and interesting informaiton? I presupposed it would be equipped with AL-41F1 engines, but I hadn't heard of a new radar from NIIP yet. What does "rotating passive phased array" mean, exactly?

Of course, the AL-41F1 (or a variant thereof) will also power the PAK FA (unless a miracle happens and the MFI gets chosen, in which case they'll need the original AL-41F).

[aerospacetech]

Rotating passive phased array means, like N011M Bars, that the phased array is not fixed but steerable. Bars is steerable in azimuth only.

The Su-35BM is featured in Air & Cosmos Number 1935 - 7 May 2004. I bet PiBu can tell us more

[fft]

If this 'steeribility' implies moving the antenna, does'nt then it defeats the whole purpose of phase-array.

Any idea about the weight and signal processing capability of this new radar.

[Jai]

fft, from what I have read, in the case of electronically scanned antennas the maximum angle of scanning is reduced as compared to antennas which are purely mechanically scanned. That is, that the overall volume of space which can be scanned using purely electronic scanning is lesser than what is achievable through mechanically scanned antennas. A combined mechanical + electronic scanning mechanism combines best of both worlds, that is reduced scanning times + higher agility ( from electronic scanning ) and large volume of scanned space ( from mechanical scanning) .

[fft]

Jai your answers seems to be logical, though I suspect this 'reduction in angle of scanning' problems only happens to passive phase (because of difficulty in shaping beam with passive components). I guess Thales also has a few passive phase-array radars, are they also 'hybrid' i.e. electrical+mechanical like BARS.

[over G]

Always the russians with their unexistent pakfa!!!!, i think that they will wait until the service confirmation of the f22 (if it get an strong confirmation), but im impressed by their engineers,finally they put an AL41 into falnkers!!! my supossition of an "stealth 5th generation flanker" maybe is getting real??????

[aerospacetech]

All phased array radars suffer from a degredation in performance when scanning at extreme angles. The Bars radar is the worst in this respect- it steers only +-40 degrees electronically, and one can argue that the mechanical scan is a fix for this. The normal figure for a phased array (i.e. RBE-2) is +-60 degrees, while the best anyone has ever quoted is +-70 degrees (Phazotron Zhuk-MSFE). The Zhuk mechanically scanned radars have +-90degrees in azimuth, which is a lot bigger than even the best phased array can manage.

The only downside to combined mechanical/electronic scanning is the additional weight. You don't lose anything- your phased array can still operate as normal, you just gain the ability to extend the scanning limits beyond what is possible with a fixed array.

[GDL]

Yet another Su-35 incarnation? Is this Su-35BM going to be a tech demo platform, or are they still hoping to sell the Su-35 as opposed to the Su-30?