PLAAF News, Photos and Speculation #11

[fightingirish]

Deino, will the H-6K be shown in your article "Drachenflügel (eng: Dragonswings) - Part 3" published in the german magazine Fliegerrevue Extra 19, December 2007?

This weekend I am reading Fliegerrevue Extra 18, September 2007. When I am finished, I will post a comment in the german forum Flugzeugforum.de.

[Deino]

Originally Posted by fightingirish

Deino, will the H-6K be shown in your article "Drachenflügel (eng: Dragonswings) - Part 3" published in the german magazine Fliegerrevue Extra 19, December 2007?

This weekend I am reading Fliegerrevue Extra 18, September 2007. When I am finished, I will post a comment in the german forum Flugzeugforum.de.

Yes, it will and hopefully with a profile made by JP Santiago !!

Regarding the comments ... any comment is wellcome; THANKS !!!

Deino

[crobato]

Originally Posted by Nick_76

Do those references state that the entire squadron pulls the same hours, and for that matter, delineates the amount of hours flown by experience or type qualification, seniority?
Otherwise, those certificates would only be valid viz a subset of pilots, the elite.

The certificate maybe for an elite. However, in 2003-2004 KANWA was reporting the PLAAF clocking very high hours (over 200) with some very intense training at that time. This however may have softened in the succeeding years.

However, we do have a solid reference for 160 hours for a J-7 pilot. This is in reference to the J-7 pilot that was killed in November 2006. His plane was over a populated area when it developed trouble and he had to flew his plane into a safe zone before he crashed. However he didn't make it. The newspaper made a reference that he had flown over 140 hours for the year and is 10% away from reaching his quota. This is also an indication that crashes are reported and people don't have to make up stories about them.

The third reference is what the PLAAF 1st Division commander told General Pace. 140-150 hours per year.

[Nick_76]

Originally Posted by crobato

The certificate maybe for an elite. However, in 2003-2004 KANWA was reporting the PLAAF clocking very high hours (over 200) with some very intense training at that time. This however may have softened in the succeeding years.

It wouldnt hold true for the entire AF, since it would make budget planning chaotic. It would probably hold true for some squadrons, which went through a heightened state of readiness or an exercise.

However, we do have a solid reference for 160 hours for a J-7 pilot. This is in reference to the J-7 pilot that was killed in November 2006. His plane was over a populated area when it developed trouble and he had to flew his plane into a safe zone before he crashed. However he didn't make it. The newspaper made a reference that he had flown over 140 hours for the year and is 10% away from reaching his quota. This is also an indication that crashes are reported and people don't have to make up stories about them.

Depends on what his seniority and what his role is, I guess? Do we have any standard flight hours- for say a minimum qualification in flight hours, for a fully OPs pilot to meet?

The third reference is what the PLAAF 1st Division commander told General Pace. 140-150 hours per year.

Ok.

[GoldenDragon]

Originally Posted by Deino

A small teaser for all Chinese aviation enthusiasts !

I know I have been quite “arduously” for some of You because of my endless questions on Chinese military aviation topics, but finally here’s the result.

Once initiated by Tony Buttler for an article regarding for an English magazine “Chinese Secret Projects” – THANKs for that ! – it now became a German three-part version at first.

These articles are to be published in the German "Flieger Revue" related to the development of the Chinese military aviation and its industry.

The first part of that includes the build-up after the foundation of the PRC until the mid/late 1970s with the history of the J-6 family, the early Q-5 and J-7 versions, the J-8I and J-9 programme for the fighters and the H-5, H-6 developments as the bomber projects H-6I, H-8I and H-8II (albeit very speculative !)

http://www.fliegerrevue.de/fr_extra....=157&AID=18595

Part two - out now in September 2007 - continues with the J-7-family, the J-8I and J-8II, the speculative heavy J-10 fighter, the light-weight projects J-11 and J-12 until the latest projects from the 80s like the J-13 ... along with modernised and special versions of the H-6 and Q-5. For the mud-movers it will include the JH-7 and Q-6 projects.

http://www.fliegerrevue.de/fr_extra....=158&AID=19324

The final part - hopefully out in November - will then conclude the story with the Su-27 (J-11), J-10 and FC-1 and an outlook to the future !

For more esp. some of the colour profiles look here:
http://www.secretprojects.co.uk/foru...p?topic=1641.0


Maybe some of You might be interested (even if written in German) I hope You like it, ... cheers, Deino

Congrat, Deino!

[Deino]

Originally Posted by GoldenDragon

Congrat, Deino!

Thanks

[sealordlawrence]

Just found these pictures. H-6K apparently, note the optical turret under the nose. Furthermore the nose has the classic look of a chinese nose that contains a radar. Any details or is this just another fan boy PS job?

[Hell King]

Originally Posted by sealordlawrence

Just found these pictures. H-6K apparently, note the optical turret under the nose. Furthermore the nose has the classic look of a chinese nose that contains a radar. Any details or is this just another fan boy PS job?

Analysis: China attains nuclear strategic strike capability
HONG KONG, Sep. 7
ANDREI CHANG

Column: Military Might
China has been upgrading its H-6 bombers and producing H-6K bombers in an effort to improve its aerial nuclear strategic deterrence. The subsonic speed of the H-6 and non-stealthy sorties prevented it from breaking through the air defense networks of Russia, the United States and Japan. Fitted with D-30-P2 engines of greater thrust power, the new H-6K has a greatly increased range and combat payload. The two engines, each with a thrust power of 12,000 kilograms, may enhance the H-6K's ammunition capacity to around 12 tons, enabling it to carry large long-range cruise missiles.

Before 2006 China had no effective long-range air-launched cruise missiles. Judging from their exterior structure, the range of the YJ-63 cruise missiles it has fitted on the H-6H is no more than 200 kilometers. The deployment of this cruise missile in its 10th Bomber Division appears to be aimed at reinforcing strike capability on tactical targets in Taiwan.

The H-6K has a reinforced fuselage structure and uses more composite materials, and the hardpoints fitted on it are also newly designed. Armed with long-range cruise missiles, even though it is still a subsonic bomber, the H-6K now has the operational capability to project nuclear deterrence. The fire control software of the H-6K will also undergo necessary modifications.

A careful analysis of the configuration of the six cruise missiles loaded on the H-6K bomber, a picture of which appeared recently on Chinese Web sites, indicates that China may have imitated the Russian KH-55A air-launched cruise missiles. In the mid-1990s China acquired six such missiles from Ukraine through smuggling -- a feat confirmed by Ukrainian authorities.

Although the image of the H-6K is blurred, it can be seen that the air-intake channel is close to the stabilizing fin at the tail, very similar to the pneumatic structure of the KH-55A. This indicates that the H-6K bomber is powered by turbofan engines. This photo also indicates that China very likely has started to produce a Chinese version of the KH-55.

The KH-55 and KH-55SM can be either conventional or nuclear cruise missiles. It is not likely that the development of such long-range aggressive weapons was intended for conventional offensive operations. Such missiles can be armed with a 200-kiloton nuclear warhead. Thus the Chinese version of the KH-55 could be fitted with both conventional and nuclear warheads. The KH-55 has a length of 8.09 meters and a diameter of 0.514 meters -- 0.77 meters for the KH-55SM. The KH-55 has a wingspan of 3.1 meters, a weight of 1,700 kilograms and a flying speed of Mach 0.48-0.77. The total weight of the 6 KH-55 missiles is 10.2 tons. These figures give some idea as to why China is upgrading its H-6H to the H-6K.

The acquisition of the H-6K and new generation long-range cruise missile is an epoch-making event for the PLA Air Force. When used for conventional precision offensive operations, the Chinese KH-55 fired from Chinese air space will put the entire Korean peninsula within strike range, and also much of Japan, including the whole of Okinawa, parts of Honshu island and all of Kyushu and Shikoku.

If the Chinese KH-55 has the 2,500-kilometer strike range of the original Russian KH-55, H-6K bombers taking off from an airport in northeast China could directly launch attacks within China's own air space upon almost all targets in Tokyo, Hokkaido and Honshu. Moreover, the H-6K bombers deployed in the 8th Bomber Division under the southern Guangzhou Military Region could be forward-deployed and launch aerial attacks upon Guam.

From the official Chinese news release after the successful flight tests of the H-6K, it can be clearly sensed that the Chinese military has high expectations for this bomber. It is not just an upgraded variant of the H-6 or intended only for tactical purposes. The news release described its test flight as an event that "20,000 Xian Aircraft Company staff have been longing for, for 13 long years." Guests invited to observe the maiden flight of the bomber included top leaders from the Central Military Commission and the Commission of Science, Technology and Industry for National Defense.

It appears that the entry into service of the H-6K has given the Chinese air force genuine operational capability to launch nuclear attacks upon adversary targets.

[tphuang]

Originally Posted by crobato

The certificate maybe for an elite. However, in 2003-2004 KANWA was reporting the PLAAF clocking very high hours (over 200) with some very intense training at that time. This however may have softened in the succeeding years.

However, we do have a solid reference for 160 hours for a J-7 pilot. This is in reference to the J-7 pilot that was killed in November 2006. His plane was over a populated area when it developed trouble and he had to flew his plane into a safe zone before he crashed. However he didn't make it. The newspaper made a reference that he had flown over 140 hours for the year and is 10% away from reaching his quota. This is also an indication that crashes are reported and people don't have to make up stories about them.

The third reference is what the PLAAF 1st Division commander told General Pace. 140-150 hours per year.

i read somewhere on Chinese bbs that the flight time has been cut down the last couple of years due to funding issues. That seems to reflect what you are saying. If that's the case, then really short sightedness for pla.

[crobato]

Probably, but there are other issues related to that too. Everyone talks about hours, but no one really describes what you actually do with those hours. It does appear whatever hours the PLAAF uses, what they do with those hours seems to be rather intense, and includes stuff like frequent night flying, low level flying and worst yet, a combination of both. 2003-2004 had some rather high attrition, and if I remember what KANWA claims, some pilots were complaining about the excess stress. From what I heard, the PLAAF stopped penalizing pilots who refused to fly at certain low altitudes if he feels he is not up to it. Consequently, the PLAAF also stopped a tradition of penalizing and replacing commanders should training accidents happen in their unit.

For tactical training, the PLAAF is relying more and more on simulators now.

[Deino]

Hey ... I only noticed recently that the Q-5J twin-sticker has received a new camo ... or is it another machine after the first prototype was painted in the blue-white-red "in-house" colours !?

Deino

[Saeed Khan]

FC-1 Model, MAKS 2007:


FC-1 Flight Simulator, MAKS 2007:


(Courtesy: Military Videos)

[Deino]

... from "=GT" via CDF !!

[GoldenDragon]

Not entirely military but an important step in China's aviation industry. A private firm being involved in the design of the large commercial jet project.

http://www.chinadaily.com.cn/bizchin...nt_6124508.htm

Private company eyes key aircraft project
By Lu Haoting (China Daily)
Updated: 2007-09-21 10:09

A private Chinese company is looking to take a share of the nation's large commercial aircraft project being developed in a sector that's usually monopolized by State-owned firms.

Guangdong Changsheng Aircraft Design Co Ltd, a private company backed by a real estate developer, plans to become a shareholder in a joint stock company that will take charge of China's large commercial aircraft project. The private company wants to do the conceptual and aerodynamic design of the new aircraft.

The company brought six 1:50 aircraft models to the Aviation Expo/China 2007 that opened in Beijing on Wednesday. The models include three 150- to 200-seat single-aisle aircraft and three 200- to 300-seat twin-aisle airplanes.

It has completed the conceptual aircraft design process, said Zhou Jisheng, general manager of Guangdong Changsheng.

The government said in March that a joint stock company would be established to take charge of the development of China's own large commercial airplane. The country plans to make large aircraft by 2020 and the design process will start during the 11th Five-Year Plan period (2006-10). The government has not released details of the design, including size, cruise speed or range.

Guangdong Changsheng Chairman Zou Xichang said he would like to invest "several hundred million yuan" in the new company. Zou was ranked 70th on Forbes' list of the richest Chinese in 2005.

"We also hope to invest with the technologies we have," Zou said.

Guangdong Changsheng has about 30 aircraft designers and engineers. Eight of them used to be major designers of China's Y-10 passenger jet and the ARJ21 regional jet. The Y-10 was developed by China in the 1970s, but never entered commercial service. The ARJ21 is now in final assembly and will begin service in late 2009.

[wilhelm]

Originally Posted by Hell King

Analysis: China attains nuclear strategic strike capability
HONG KONG, Sep. 7
ANDREI CHANG

Column: Military Might
China has been upgrading its H-6 bombers and producing H-6K bombers in an effort to improve its aerial nuclear strategic deterrence. The subsonic speed of the H-6 and non-stealthy sorties prevented it from breaking through the air defense networks of Russia, the United States and Japan. Fitted with D-30-P2 engines of greater thrust power, the new H-6K has a greatly increased range and combat payload. The two engines, each with a thrust power of 12,000 kilograms, may enhance the H-6K's ammunition capacity to around 12 tons, enabling it to carry large long-range cruise missiles.

Does anyone have any pictures of the re-engined variant? I'm assuming that perhaps there will be a slight difference in intake/intake size due to the fact that the D-30 is a turbofan with probably a higher airflow requirement.

[Deino]

Originally Posted by wilhelm

Does anyone have any pictures of the re-engined variant? I'm assuming that perhaps there will be a slight difference in intake/intake size due to the fact that the D-30 is a turbofan with probably a higher airflow requirement.

The only picture of the complete ac is this blurred picture ... and YES - at least for my opinion - the intake looks different !

[Deino]

just posted by =GT at the CDF !!!

So - IMO - it looks as our old friend 01 became 001 and finally 1001 !!!

Cheers, Deino

[Zmey Smirnoff]

Originally Posted by Deino

The only picture of the complete ac is this blurred picture ... and YES - at least for my opinion - the intake looks different !

Does the ALCM on the inner pylon look different?

[wilhelm]

Originally Posted by Deino

The only picture of the complete ac is this blurred picture ... and YES - at least for my opinion - the intake looks different !

Thanks Deino. The intake looks considerably bigger. Seeing as some of the airframes are actually quite recently built, this may mean that the H-6/Badger design will be in service longer than the B-52's!!

[hallo84]

Originally Posted by Zmey Smirnoff

Does the ALCM on the inner pylon look different?

The missiles seem to have the same profile to me maybe just lighting differences. Too blurry to tell for sure but the missiles are said to be the DH-10 LACM...

[crobato]

I suspect the LACMs on the mid and outer wing points are smaller due to the structural weight capability of the wing. If you want to hang bigger LACMs, you have to hang it in the inner wing and the center fuselage.

My opinion is that the "bigger" LACM is the DH-10 while the "smaller" LACMs are based on the YJ-62 or simply the YJ-62 AshM itself. With that large nose radar and FLIR/IRST, the plane is more than just a nuclear or LACM carrier, it may also have more tactical roles, including anti-shipping.

[googeler]

you have to hang it in the inner wing and the center fuselage.

Does this mean that the internal weapons bay was deleted?

[Deino]

Dong Feng-113 wind-tunnel model !?

[JP Vieira]

Thanks for posting Deino

[Deino]

...just from the current issue of the IAPR no. 22 !!!

[Deino]

The Z-10 is just out posted by "yexu" at the CDF !!

... and hopefully these stupid discussions of being a Tiger-, Mangusta- or even Rooivalk-clone will now have an end.

... but also maybe a small glimpse of the H-6K too.

[Hydropod]

The pic of WZ-10 is also taken from under the wing of a J-10. Might be from a internal National Day exhibition of some sort? Also note the new HJ-10? ATGM under the wing pylons.

[Deino]

Originally Posted by Hydropod

The pic of WZ-10 is also taken from under the wing of a J-10. Might be from a internal National Day exhibition of some sort? Also note the new HJ-10? ATGM under the wing pylons.

Yes, the HJ-10's are very interesting esp. as they confirm the estimations of the picture in flight some posts above. ... but are Your sure it's a J-10 ??? For my opinion it looks more like a J-8F ... therefore I would suggest/estimate this of beinf one of the J-8F prototypes at the CFTE Xian-Yanglian.

Cheers, Deino

[parleegee]

Originally Posted by crobato

I suspect the LACMs on the mid and outer wing points are smaller due to the structural weight capability of the wing. If you want to hang bigger LACMs, you have to hang it in the inner wing and the center fuselage.

My opinion is that the "bigger" LACM is the DH-10 while the "smaller" LACMs are based on the YJ-62 or simply the YJ-62 AshM itself. With that large nose radar and FLIR/IRST, the plane is more than just a nuclear or LACM carrier, it may also have more tactical roles, including anti-shipping.

pic of the LACM DH-10 undergoing static tests. Photo was taken couple years ago. Article mentioned it will use stealth technology(RAM).

[crobato]

Originally Posted by Deino

...just from the current issue of the IAPR no. 22 !!!

Good work Deino!