R-77 (Aka AA-12 Adder) thread
 

so what's the delio with this missile,

as far as modern missiles of it's generation goes.. it is probably the only true rival with AMRAAM. Why? because both are 400+ pound monsters, and it is unlikely that the lighter 200+ pound Mica, Derby and R-Darter are within the same class.

Now, is this thing all it's hyped up to be? or a dud? for the longest time it seems that the Russians haven't completed tests with it, and most of the ones seen on aircraft turned out to be dummies.. (as evident by the refusal of US selling AMRAAM to a neighboring country in the region)..

but there are pics of Chinese R-77 with the plastic nose cone, which may indicate it is in service (or may not) and in India too.. so is it a stud or a dud?

supposedle 3 versions of it.. R-77, R-77M and R-77-Pxx (P something.. ok? :P) the R-77M is suppose to have a better motor and the R-77-Pxx has that and a ramjet.. or something like that.. someone here should be able to provide more details..

i guess no one knows yet (classified or they simply dont care to tell about it.. it's no one's business anyway), im sure they are testing it, or making something fancier..

what about the K-30 (new short range missile, replacement for the R-73M, with dynamic gas control) any pictures? specs? news?

The AIM-120 is 345 lbs, not over 400.

And it is in service on Su-30MKKs and MKIs in China and India, respectively. Malaysian MiG-29s can fire the weapon, as can a few of Peru's FULCRUMs. Of those two only Peru is known to have the weapon in-stock.

There are a whole mess of variants:
R-77 (original weapon)
R-77M (extended range AAM)
R-77-PD (ramjet powered AAM)
R-77-ZRK (SAM)
R-77T (IR homing)
R-77P (passive homing)
RVV-AE (this being the export R-77).

Sean... what is the current development/deployment status of all these adder variants??

i'm more interested in how well this thing works as after all Soviet/Russian AAMs have not the bestest of performance history :Diablo:

how well it's seeker and radar works when in the face of modern countermeasures

R-77T, R-77P, R-77-ZRK are all paper projects being developed as far as I know, although I think there may have been some ground launches of the -ZRK already.

The R-77/RVV-AE is operationally deployed.

The R-77-PD is being flight tested. Apparently this has replaced the R-77M in development as it offers greater range.

The baseline R-77 is decent but lacks a lofted flight profile, which has been incorporated on the R-77-PD. That costs you range.

Um, hamburger, what exactly is wrong with the Russian R-73M, R-27ER, R-27ET, R-33?

I thought that the R-77-PD was developed from the R-77M making it in the future R-77M-PD. AFAIR Besides the standard long range 160km ramjet R-77 planned for RuAF, there are plans also to develop an IR and Passive versions too.

Here's what I know from the features JDW and AFM . There should be, as of now, simply IR and PR variants of the standard R-77. This may have been a ploy to get the RusAF interested in a batch of the baseline R-77s, enabling it to replace the R-27 family in its entirety. Now, Vympel has also stated that the R-77 is no longer offered, and that all missiles being built in the original configuration are RVV-AEs. This matches up with the reports that the RusAF has decided to forgo the R-77 and wait for the R-77-PD.

As for an "R-77M-PD", that doesn't work. The R-77M was rocket powered, having a larger motor for extended range, while the R-77-PD is ramjet powered. My theory: the R-77M was probably the basis for the R-77-ZRK SAM, as this does feature a fatter body housing a larger motor.

Ok I see, I just thought the R-77M was bigger and had more fuel and such then they gave it a ramjet motor to become R-77M-PD.

Any more info on the R-77-ZRK SAM? All I have is a little pic of it here from this site
http://www.mod.gov.sk/e-ziny/armada/2002_02/pics/10.jpg

Can someone translate these two sites? I can't seem to find some decent translators to do it.

http://www.mod.gov.sk/e-ziny/armada/2002_02/008.html
http://news.sina.com.cn/w/2004-05-19/10082569045s.shtml

If that pic is right and thats what R-77-ZRK is sopposed to look like, then it seems like a decent SAM based on that, a single piece vehicle, with it's own radar and it would have to deploy and such. I would assume R-77-ZRK would have similar performance as SLAMRAAM/CLAWS/NASAMS, a range of some 33kms and ceiling of 15km. Except that the SLAMRAAM.... ones are just launch vehicles and have to get the info from other sources.

this was quoted from a Chinese site
"The second kind is casement RVV-AE-ZRK. This ball uses two levels of solid fuel propellant auxiliary booster, therefore middle the shell body the diameter increases. It is said that, this ball possibly uses in substituting at present to use in SA-6 in the cube [SA-6 Kub] guided missile system 3M9 missile"

So as it appears the 160km ramjet R-77-PD was considered for this SAM. The obvious question is, wouldnt the rocket powered R-77M be much more effective at boosting up than a ramjet R-77-PD which is rather inefficient at low altitude.

That picture is the MRADS system, of which the R-77-ZRK is one potential missile (the Fakel 9M96 being the other).

Yes, for a small missile like this launched from zero velocity on the ground, a rocket is probably better. That's probably why the -ZRK doesn't use ramjets.

Off topic a bit, but I think the SLAMRAAM can be fired as is, using the missile's active radar to find and kill the target. It can be fired off the rail like this from aircraft as well, either locking on before launch or after.

Yes, but using missile's active radar which has a pretty small range right? Something like 20kms correct me if I am wrong! I still think for it to be effective to it's maximum it will need external sources.

Now, what is MRADS and what about the Fakel 9M96(which I understand is S-400's shorter ranged missile)

The 9M96 is an active-radar guided SAM available in two versions, the 40km ranged 9M96, or the 120km ranged 9M96E2. It's one of the missiles used by the S-300PMU-2 and the S-400 (the others being the 48N6 and 40N6), and at one point was considered for use as an AAM.

MRADS is a medium-range SAM system, sort of like a more modern, cheaper Buk-M2. The weapon to be used hasn't been decided upon yet, and I think it's aimed solely at the export market. If the 9M96 is used, it also makes a nice complement for an S-300PMU-2 or S-400 customer as you have a common missile.

I'll pull out my volumes of Jane's Land Based Air Defense (I have 3 :D ) later and post more details on the MRADS.

Somewhere around 20kms, but it's certainly a nice cheap option if you don't want to spring for an entire developed SAM system complete with EW radar systems like the 64N6 BIG BIRD. Plus it's extremely mobile if not constrained by outside sensors.

I would like to see more info on the "cheaper BUK-M2"

Ok, this is from Jane's LBAD 2002-2003.

The system has a radar used for both detection and illumination, and it can track 6 targets at once.

Missiles used are the 9M96E (40 km) and 9M100 (8 km), although I've seen the missile 9M62 mentioned as well.

Engagement envelope:
Range: 40km
Altitude: 5m to 25km

The launch box contains one of the following three loadouts:
-10 9M96E
-28 9M100
-5 9M96E and 10 9M100

The system is aimed at the export market, with the Middle East being the primary target.

My guess is that Vympel is proposing the R-77-ZRK as an alternative to the 9M96, but I wonder if that is realistic as the 9M96 is being produced anyway for the S-300PMU-2 and S-400. Of course, it would work if the R-77-ZRK is offered to a nation already using the R-77 and not either of the above SAM systems.

This is what I have been able to gather about the K-30:

K-30 (Idzeliye 611)
Developer: Vympel
Length: 3 m
Diameter: 0.17 m
Wingspan: 0.27 m
Launch weight: 105-110 kg
Maximum range: 35 km
Propulsion: Solid-propellant rocket
Guidance: Imaging IR
The K-30 was designed as a close-range AAM for the MFI fighter project. Production was originally scheduled for 1997. Similar configuration to the French MICA, with four tail fins and a gimballed rocket nozzle that reduces thrust losses during vectoring. Imaging IR seeker and control systems designed in the Ukraine. A variant with passive radar homing was also planned.

that's what i'm trying to find out buddy! ;)

Well well, lookit what I found :D As we can see, the RVV-AE-ZRK (export designator for the R-77-ZRK) is clearly not ramjet powered.

Also, some updates on MRADS and MSAM, another Almaz/Antei project.

MSAM is another mobile project designed around the 9M96E missile. There's three components, a 12-round TEL, radar vehicle, and transloader. The radar can track 40 targets and engage 8.

One more-the RVV-AE-ZRK may be used in the Tor-M2 as an alternative to the 9M332.

Ok what are the 9M100(first time I hear of it), 9M332 and 9M62?

So any more info on the 9M96E SAM or the R-77-ZRK?

so where's the details of all the goodies on the K-30?

oh and how does the K-30 compare to the Python 5?

And R-73M to the Python 4?

9M100 is a short-range, IR weapon that has been mentioned as both a SAM and an AAM. My guess is it was a loser to the K-30 and the designers felt it still had merit so they put it in a canister for ground launch.

9M332 is a modified 9M331 for use with the 9K332 Tor-M2.

As for the 9M62, your guess is as good as mine. All I know is it is supposed to be a missile associated with the MRADS. The RVV-AE-ZRK has been mentioned as an alternative to this as well as the 9M96.

9M96E is the export version of the 9M96, a 40km range ARH SAM first associated with the S-300PMU-2 Favorit, and later with the S-400, MRADS, and MSAM. There is also a 120km range version, the 9M96M or 9M96D, the export version being the 9M96E2. The long-burn version is not associated with either MRADS or MSAM. The 9M96 missiles are the ones that go in the 4-pack that has been seen on some S-300PMU-2 TELs that have been exhibited, replacing one of the 48N6E2 tubes.

The picture below shows, from top to bottom, the 48N6E2, 9M96E2, and 9M96E. You can see one of those four-packs on the TEL in the background.

So 9M62 was the original missile planned but R-77-ZRK and 9M96 are alternatives?

As far as I can tell the 9M96E was the intended weapon, and the 9M62 and RVV-AE-ZRK are the alternatives.

Anyways, any more info on the 9m96 SAM system?

You mean the missile itself or the MSAM or MRADS?

both, especially MSAM/MRADS.

Not yet on the MSAM/MRADS systems. I'd bet that in order for more work to be done somebody would have to decide to buy the things first.

As for the 9M96 family...

9M96E
Range-1 to 40 km
Altitude-5 to 25,000 meters
Warhead-24 kg HE Frag
Guidance-I/AR

9M96E2
Range-1 to 120 km
Altitude-5 to 30,000 meters
Warhead-24 kg HE Frag
Guidance-I/AR

That's about the extent of what I've got that's not already posted here.