Empire of the Sun Mustangs...

[Chris Broad]

Hi Chaps,

Wonder if you can help me, i've just bought the aformentioned film on DVD and have really enjoyed watching it again after so long. Of course the aerial sequences are excellent, famously 'that' scene where Ray Hanna waves at young Jim. I've been traweling through the internet and the forums trying to find out which P-51's were used by OFMC in the movie.

I can only identify G-HAEC (Now with Rob Davies) as playing "Missy Wong From Hong-Kong". If I recall correctly, there were 2 other aircraft used. One of which is named 'Tugboat' or 'Jugboat' (?) the aircraft that Hanna Sr flies in the waving sequence. And another, the noseart name i cannot recall.

Can anyone shed any light on the aircraft, where they are now and if anyone has any photos of the aircraft from the filming I would be most appreciative!

Thanks in advance guys and gals.

[Colin Wingrave]

"MOOSE" of the Fighter Collection i'm sure was used in the film and flown by the late Hoof Proudfoot. I know Rob Lamploughs Miss Hellen was going to be used in the film but was dropped at the last min but at least it got her back in the air quicker.



Empire of the Sun (1987)


Hoof Proudfoot.... aerial unit mustang pilot
Mark Hanna .... aerial unit mustang pilot
Ray Hanna .... aerial unit chief mustang pilot
Tom Danaher .... aerial unit chief zero pilot

Jeff Hawke .... aerial unit coordinator
James Good .... aerial unit coordinator
John Evetts .... aerial unit chief engineer

[Black Knight]

Moose was painted up as MY Dallas Darlin' & the 3rd P-51 was owned by Stephen Grey for a little while, it was G-PSID & IIRC was painted as Tugboat. Think it went to France & crashed.

[DazDaMan]

One of the best "big screen" aviation moments that, in my opinion. :)

"P-51, CADILLAC OF THE SKY!"

http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=57551

[curlyboy]

Daz da man has the link for the better thread for this film

I had a great moment last time it was on the telly of saying i met the waving pilot of that mustang once and what a nice guy he was RIP Ray/Mark Hanna :(

curlyboy

[Colin Wingrave]

you may like to view said waving pilot here below

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ip0NdbGtlYM

And we have a conection with Christian Bale, as he was at our fort filming "BATMAN BEGINS"

[shuck]

Hi Chaps,

Wonder if you can help me, i've just bought the aformentioned film on DVD and have really enjoyed watching it again after so long. Of course the aerial sequences are excellent, famously 'that' scene where Ray Hanna waves at young Jim. I've been traweling through the internet and the forums trying to find out which P-51's were used by OFMC in the movie.

I can only identify G-HAEC (Now with Rob Davies) as playing "Missy Wong From Hong-Kong". If I recall correctly, there were 2 other aircraft used. One of which is named 'Tugboat' or 'Jugboat' (?) the aircraft that Hanna Sr flies in the waving sequence. And another, the noseart name i cannot recall.

Can anyone shed any light on the aircraft, where they are now and if anyone has any photos of the aircraft from the filming I would be most appreciative!

Thanks in advance guys and gals.


44-63788/G-PSID Tugboat & Big Dog
44-72917/G-HAEC Missy Wong from Hong Kong
44-73149/N51JJ My Dallas Darlin

[Simon Beck]

Chris,

Heres details of the three Mustangs used:
You can find pictures of them at www.airliners.net
by doing a search:

P-51D-20-NA / 44-63788 / G-PSID
- movie markings: 599 "Jugboat".
P-51D-25-NA / 44-73149 / N51JJ
- movie markings: 583.
Mustang PR.Mk. 22 / A68-192 / G-HAEC
- movie markings: 592 "Missy Wong from Hong Kong".

Japanese Zeros were converted Spainish Harvards.

cheers
Simon Beck
www.uswarplanes.net

[Simon Beck]

Sorry, forgot to note:

Ray Hanna flew G-PSID "599" in the waving flyby.

The B-29 and various other flying shots
were done with scaled RC models.

I have a picture too of the "Zero" fighter
Christian Bale played in early on in the film
at an airport somewhere in England, Bovington
I think?

Simon Beck
www.uswarplanes.net

[BennoT6]

Hi,

The Zero's were not Spanish Harvards; they were French T-6G Texans.

Regards,

Benno

[Chris Broad]

Thanks guys for your excellent responses!
I forgot about airliners.net, silly me.
Will jump over there now to take a peek. :)

[JDK]

Mark Hanna wrote up the filming for Warbirds Worldwide. The story of using the concrete bombs is worth following.

[Chris Broad]

I'd be really interested in reading that article James, how can i get hold of a copy?

[JDK]

I'd be really interested in reading that article James, how can i get hold of a copy?

Can't remember which issue it was in. There was some discussion on WIX on the topic - Issue 2 (Thanks AlanL)

http://warbirdinformationexchange.org/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=10901

[pogno]

As JDK says the bombs used in the film were weighted but I thought with plaster rather than concrete, original ones were so light they were all wobbly as they fell, filled with plaster they performed more realistically.
It was all written up in Warbirds Worldwide at the time as others have said, must try and find it.
G-PSID was owned by Doug Arnold at the time of filming I think.

[JDK]

Just checked (Warbirds Worldwide No.2 - good luck finding it) Mark says plaster filled bombs, not concrete as my memory said.

[TEXANTOMCAT]

I have a picture too of the "Zero" fighter
Christian Bale played in early on in the film
at an airport somewhere in England, Bovington
I think?

Simon Beck
www.uswarplanes.net

Cripes - really? Any chance of a copy? Thats my/our T-6G 51-14700....


TT

[Franck66]

One of the Mustang use in Emoire of the Sun was owned by Jean Salis, this one

http://www.ajbs.fr/image/archive/grande/archi001.jpg

here were another color scheme : http://francewarbirds.free.fr/Photos/Jpg/p51-f-azfi-sol1.jpg

P-51 crashed en 1998 at La Roche Sur Yon

3 french T-6 was also used in this movie, 2 owned by AJBS member and another one owned by Aeroretro

here one of these T-6 during la Ferté Alais airshow few years ago

http://www.ajbs.fr/image/archive/grande/archi002.jpg

[EN830]

"P-51, CADILLAC OF THE SKY!"

Ah, memories of a great Flying Legends a couple of years ago :)

[DIGBY]

[QUOTE=Franck66;1079840]One of the Mustang use in Emoire of the Sun was owned by Jean Salis, this one

G-PSID ex of Doug Arnold "Widowmaker" bought by SG used in the film then sold on to Jean Salis.

[ZRX61]

There was a quote at the time of filming, I think from Hoof or maybe Mark (altho now I've said that it will probably turn out to be Ray..) something along the lines of either "not many other people out dropping bombs from P51's today" or "we're probably the last pilots to drop bombs from Mustangs"

[DIGBY]

There was a quote at the time of filming, I think from Hoof or maybe Mark (altho now I've said that it will probably turn out to be Ray..) something along the lines of either "not many other people out dropping bombs from P51's today" or "we're probably the last pilots to drop bombs from Mustangs"

That was most deffinately HOOF

[Simon Beck]

This is very interesting - I find theres
an equal number of sources quoting
G-PSID as named Jugboat or Tugboat
in Empire of the Sun.

So I put the DVD on and paused it at
the waving fly-by and it looks to me that
its a "J" not a "T".
The word is a bit rough but I reckon it
says "Jugboat", I am open to anyones
opinion with more direct knowledge
and am interested to hear more.

I was of the opinion Jugboat is a reference
to "a jug of beer"???
I cannot imagine why anyone would name
the coolest WW2 fighter a "Tugboat"?

Simon

[DazDaMan]

Definitely looks like "Tugboat" to me - the bottom part of the T is kinda curled under, making it look like a J.

"Tugboat" sounds a bit better than "Jugboat", however....

[JDK]

This is very interesting - I find theres
an equal number of sources quoting
G-PSID as named Jugboat or Tugboat
in Empire of the Sun.

The initial letter does indeed look like a 'J'; I understand it was to be read as a script 't'. However it was referred to as 'Tugboat' by those involved in the filming at the time, and that's what we called it when I saw it after the filming. I'd never heard 'jugboat' as a term until reading it here. Ref Warbirds Worldwide 2.

[JDK]

The dangers of forcing ideas to fit after the fact - ;)

This is very interesting - I find theres
an equal number of sources quoting
G-PSID as named Jugboat or Tugboat
in Empire of the Sun.
The sources quoting 'Jugboat' will be secondary, I'm expecting sometime after the filming, based on photo interpretation.

I was of the opinion Jugboat is a reference
to "a jug of beer"???
I cannot imagine why anyone would name
the coolest WW2 fighter a "Tugboat"?

Coolest? It's an enclosed cockpit with a bubble canopy that only turned up after the hard yards were over! ;)

[DIGBY]

I can assure every body that it was "Tugboat" you can take that as absolutly correct.

[Moondance]

Tugboat/Jugboat?......sorry, pics taken form the wrong side, how inconsiderate (Duxford October 1987)

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h78/Moondance1/G-PSID-1.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h78/Moondance1/G-PSID-2.jpg

And OFMC's taken May 1988

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h78/Moondance1/G-HAEC-1.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h78/Moondance1/G-HAEC-2.jpg

TFC wasted no time repainting their P51 (October 1987 again)

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h78/Moondance1/N51JJ-1.jpg

http://i61.photobucket.com/albums/h78/Moondance1/N51JJ-2.jpg

[alanl]

Was Moose actually repainted or was it a water soluble paint,for the film?

Also the 'tail art' on Missy Wong was changed after the film as the original was considered a bit ugly.......

The above picture is the newer design, very nice too......:rolleyes:
Alan.

[LAHARVE]

G-PSID

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v679/LAHarve/Mustangs/GPSIDDuxford1987bb.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v679/LAHarve/Mustangs/GPSIDDuxford1985.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v679/LAHarve/Mustangs/GPSIDDuxford1987tugboat.jpg

G-PSID/FAZFI

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v679/LAHarve/Mustangs/FAZFISmall.jpg

G-HAEC with original tail artwork…

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v679/LAHarve/Mustangs/GHAECNorthWeald1987.jpg

[Simon Beck]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Simon Beck
I was of the opinion Jugboat is a reference
to "a jug of beer"???
I cannot imagine why anyone would name
the coolest WW2 fighter a "Tugboat"?

Coolest? It's an enclosed cockpit with a bubble canopy that only turned up after the hard yards were over!


I still say its the coolest fighter of WW2 regardless of
stature, everyones got their right to an opinion correct.

[JDK]

I still say its the coolest fighter of WW2 regardless of stature, everyones got their right to an opinion correct.
Apparently so, but I'm not sure why everyone's got a 'right to an opinion'. No one's come up with a watertight reason, AFAIK :D

That said, it was an old joke between me and the late Paul Coggan. He loved the Mustang, I left him to it and did everything else. There's a lot more to life than P-51Ds. ;)

Anyway, it doesn't need to be a very warm day under that canopy to make the pilot sweat...

Don't mind me...:rolleyes:

[Simon Beck]

True, True...good excuse to fly with the canopy back though and an elbow
on the sill, maybe chomping a cigar, ha ha.

The initial letter does indeed look like a 'J'; I understand it was to be read as a script 't'. However it was referred to as 'Tugboat' by those involved in the filming at the time, and that's what we called it when I saw it after the filming. I'd never heard 'jugboat' as a term until reading it here. Ref Warbirds Worldwide 2.

Although I've corrected my movie database to "Tugboat"
I did some digging and found the "Jugboat" term to be
a type of Asian river boat sort of like the "lorry" version of
a Sampan.

[JDK]

Although I've corrected my movie database to "Tugboat"
I did some digging and found the "Jugboat" term to be
a type of Asian river boat sort of like the "lorry" version of
a Sampan.
Interesting, Simon. The people who chose and applied the markins would have (I presume) been the film's Art Department. It could be they meant 'Jugboat', having done a bit more research than most... but that wasn't ever passed onto the flying team, and they surmised it must be 'Tugboat'.

Difficult to pin down for certain, as Digby says (and he was there) it was Tugboat to the guys in the aerial team.

Question - are any of the aircraft named in Ballard's book?

And if you want to try and track it to the end, see if you can track down the Art Dept. Good luck... :D

[Simon Beck]

Question - are any of the aircraft named in Ballard's book?

And if you want to try and track it to the end, see if you can track down the Art Dept. Good luck...


I read Ballard's book a long time ago but I don't think
he ever named them.
Since DIGBY was there he would be correct, no dealt
about it - did he work on the film?

Several Journalists around my office looked at the above
photo and thought it was a "J" like I did. In researching movie
avaition I find you go 10 steps back for every step forward.

[Mark V]

If that was 'Jugboat' then this must be 'Jwilight Jear' :rolleyes:

http://www.mustangsmustangs.net/p-51/survivors/pages/picpages/44-63864/44-63864-p19.html